Sarracenia Oreophylla - PHOTOs

[Flytrap]

On another CP forum, there is a lot of banter going on about the "legalness" or "illegalness" of selling a species on the CITES I list. Apparently, the discussion all arised because a fellow CP grower had offered some Oreophylla (Oreophilla) seeds on eBay. We think we know who the eBay seller is, as he disclosed enough clues as to hint of his background.

Anyways, it's currently quite the soap opera over on the other forum, and I won't insult you guys with the details. What I thought I'd do instead, is show you some nice pics of some oreos I have growing over here on the coast.

I've been growing these beasts for over 25 years... and were all from seed originally. The seeds came from ICPS, and from some old friends in Oregon and Washington state.

I really like this sarracenia species for the almost "heart" shaped lid when viewed from above, and the ability of the plant to create robust hybrids. But myself, as one who has a history of advocating species purity... I have thus purposely, planted a nice stand of oreos mixed into my bed of darlingtonias. ..to minimize interspecies hybridizing in my bog.

Every year I get beautiful boquets of flowers, which naturally set seed. So I've got a few generations of oreos over here, with them self-sowing. I'm too lazy to pollinate them in the spring/summer and even lazier to collect the seeds. At one time, I used to pllinate and collect all of them... and donated piles to various seed banks...but kept getting tripped up by well meaning CP folks trying to tangle me up with red tape. That's why that other CP forum discussion rankled me up with the "hang the bastard" mentality.

So instead, here I am sharing some pics with you here. Have a look at my last photo of an oreo in a pot. You'll notice how I mulch my plants over winter here...with peat moss. You'll notice the characteristic oreophylla winter leaf (phyllodia) poking out:

[mabudon]

I hope whoever's hand is in that picture is in jail for LIFE now, how DARE they touch that species!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, nice pics- I am hoping my S.oreophila is still holding on- SOMEONE (who shall remain nameless but his name rhymes with "Marl Laser") brought me a little offshoot he had pulled off a plant of his and tossed onto the compost heap before he realized that someone else might actually have space for it (the other guys names rhymes with "Rarl Buller")

Last I saw it, it had nice little phyllodia comin off of it, so here's hopin some pitchers will rise very soon

[Flytrap]

... c'est mon hand, mon frere!

Lock me up and throw away the key. And now that you've ALL had a glimpse of sarracenia oreo pornography - you must all go and wash your eyeballs with holy water ( the liquid that comes from the belly of nepenthes) and repeat... "we are not worthy" ...three times.

*knock * knock * knock *
OMG! ITCP!!


( ITCP = it's the CITES Police!)

[lloyd]

To be an absolute purist I supposed we should never even take seed of an endangered species or obtain it from someone who has. However the seeds that are the ancestors of the plants we are now growing or sowing were almost certainly taken from the wild years ago (or decades ago) before the rules were as clear as they are now. Also it is not clear that if everyone who took the considerable time and effort to get to an oreophila stand took as much seed as they wanted that this would have a measurable effect on oreophila populations. In an equilibrium population, only on average one seed per plant over the plant's entire lifetime will go on to become a mature seed-bearing plant. Thus you would have to "poach" likely thousands of seeds to reduce the eventual population over decades by one reproductive plant. Contrast this to poaching of actual plants or leaves or even more with habitat destruction and I think the effect of seed taking would be infinestimal. That being said, I fully support that all seed poachers and those obtaining poached seeds be killed, finely chopped up and fed to existing stands of S. oreophila. By the way, I must confess that I bought some seeds of this plant recently from a certain someone. Mea culpa. I'm watching my back.

[curlingguy]

Very nice plants.

I hear the CITEs police are coming to get you. They first have to fill out "all the neccessary paperwork" so you'll be able to enjoy the Olympics before there's any chance of them nabbing you.

;D

I bought an Oreophylla via this site and got two. One I kept and one I gave to a friend.....his died.....mine good.

[Flytrap]

Well... it looks like all the fuss on that *other* CP forum has died down. There was a mention of a hint to me... for me to donate my oreophila seeds.

I guess I'll pollinate these suckers come spring. Put your name on a waiting list... I'll divide up the seeds come fall. I'm not sure how many seeds will be in store, but you can bet your sweet behinds I won't be sending any to those witch hunters on that *other* forum.

David

[martin]

My S. oreophila presently looks like the one on the last picture. I got it last year from "Marl Laser", hope to see it grow a lot.

CITES actually protects S. oreophila in its native states. Therefore, I dont see any issues trading this plant inside Canada because it doesnt even grow here naturally. In fact, I think this plant cannot even legally leave Oregon, even if origins from cultivation.

[lloyd]

I can't wait till my seeds stratify so I can be part of the conspiracy.

[Flytrap]

lloyd said:

I can't wait till my seeds stratify so I can be part of the conspiracy.

Hold on there a minute, cowboy... is that a CSA* approved stratifying unit you'll be using?

*CSA= CITESapproved Agitiation

[purpman]

Just a couple of notes on Oreophila.

CITES basically bans shipping of seed and plants internationally without copious amounts of paperwork. However, within the bounds of Canada, you are free to ship seeds and plants without any problems.

So also long as the guy on Ebay is shipping inside Canada, he's good.

purpman (marl lazer) :-)

[lloyd]

That's no fun.

[mabudon]

Still, it's good to "hear" from someone who is A) pretty experienced in the "field" (I don't wanna make Lazer blush, so I won't overstate it but really, most of the North American plants we all have likely have something to do with the guy) and B) level headed, which the aforementioned thread elsewheres was most definitely NOT

But I admit the cloak-and-rhizome game can be pretty fun to, Lloyd

[Flytrap]

When I visited Leo Song at the old Fullerton Arboretum years ago, he shared his thoughts on the whole CITES crap shoot too. So if you're reading this Leo, correct me if I'm wrong, but we agreed that this *originally* well intentioned CITES effort was a classic example of beurocrats gone wild. And again, it's not like these plants had been harvested out in the wild up here in Canada.

So I still shout to those extremist lemming mentality nutjobs out there who think that the sharing of CITES seeds from places that are easily identified as outside CITES I habitats (eg. there are NO Nep rajahs, NO Nep khasianas and NO S oreophilas ...the last time I took a walk in our Canadian forests) are evil... really need to have their screws tightened up.

In fact, I think their monopolization antics make a good candidate for a conspiracy...

And to the ebay guy whose oreophila seeds started this cloak and rhizome... maybe you should just donate all your seeds to the OCPS.

[lloyd]

Really habitat destruction is by far the most important cause of Sarracenia demise. Probably for Nepenthes poaching is a more important factor. The best way to prevent poaching is to have tons of cloned or quickly propagated plants with easy access to international markets. There's no way a poacher could make any money if seeds and plants are available for reasonable prices. If CITES is too prohibitive, it could actually perpetuate a black market in poached plants. (Hmmm, poached plants, sounds sort of appetizing.)

[purpman]

CITES.... I have this talk with many Sarracenia enthusiasts. Look at it this way. Sarracenia are disappearing in the wild at an alarming rate. Before my kids arrived, my wife and used to make 2 or 3 trips south each year either to the carolinas or the gulf coast. Its amazing to see the destruction of habitat.

I applaud the efforts of the Sarracenia Conservation group (NASC I think) who are trying really hard to grow a national collection, and one purpose is to preserve rare genomes of sarracenia. Well its certainly hard to preserve rare sarracenia if you can't get your hands on material.

For instance lets look at oreophila from NC and GA. Each state has one site for oreophila. Yes they are being managed and are closely guarded. Both of sites are on the same lake. Apparently there were other sites, but I was told a dam was built on one of the outlets and raised the level of the lake and flooded out some sites. Now if for instance the NC sites' seeds were distributed freely, that populations would be saved (at least in cultivation). CITES certainly impeeds this.

I also applaud the work Barry did a few years ago with S. alabamenis. The ideal would be for an organization like the ICPS to be given an allocation of seed from Oreophila, alabamensis and Jonesii from coded sites (like the alabamensis) and the ability (blessing of CITES) to ship them internationally. However, being on the board at that time I know that dream is not likely to come true.


It would make a lot of sence to allow the circulation of appendix 1 Sarracenia so that they are widely distributed in cultivation even if their natural distribution shrinks to a point of extripation.

The same is true for many other populations of non CITES plants. For instance Phil Sheridan has worked very hard to preserve the Genome of Virginia flava. Only two sites are left in the state, Whe I met phil in 92 there were 6 or 8 (I forget). No nature groups want to step in perse as the plants aren't immediately in peril like jonesii! Flava is quite stable in the wild, just unstable in VA. I have plants from a number of extirpated sites in VA thanks to phil. To some folks they are just flavas, to me they represent a living record of a population. I wish I could say the same about CITES 1 plants.

2 more cents.

purpman