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Post by vraev on Mar 5, 2007 14:49:08 GMT -5
Hi guys, All of my VFT's have recovered from the excess feeding apart from the B52 alone......new traps are somehow just rotting....like 2/3 new traps are getting tissue damage and it just rots the head and stops growing...however only 1 of the 3 makes it to a full leaf. SO i decided I rather try pulling it out of the soil....see if there is any larve or so.....also the B52 is too near the glass...so I wanted to rotate the plant so that it grows into the terrarium. Well.....I finally unpotted it and the corm is the size of a GOLF BALL. There are 2 small 2mm sized corm pieces that have smaller traps coming off them....that means divisions. However none of them are completely divided ...so I just kept them together.... the leaves are all soooo shabby..I guess I took the risk becos its been a month and the B52 has to recover.  ... Well....we'll see if it was a mistake. I honestly don't see any fungus gnat larve or anything....if anything I see springtails. If you can notice BTW... the traps are around 2 inches ... exact size = 1.9 inches    |
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Post by mabudon on Mar 5, 2007 14:57:27 GMT -5
HMMMMMMMMM
from that one leaf, it looks like there might be something afoot- I am SURE there's somethin eating that thing, but my relative "newbieness" (as in I haven't lost NEARLY as many plants as some folks here) makes me hesitate to diagnose it for what it is- no matter what, it looks like something you will be able to control, if my suspicions are correct.....
Analysis, Mr.Spock??
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Post by vraev on Mar 5, 2007 15:45:38 GMT -5
The thing is even my other 2 VFT's had the same problem....wavy leaves and stuff....they recovered.....both of them are normal now....it was becos of the over feeding. However u notice in the first pic...the small trap... that is not a division...its the same plant but its deformed leaves....deformed leaves or rotted leaves....it only happens to the new leaves...all old leaves are fine....I have used my magnifying glass to see if there are mites...there are none...i have dipped it in water to see anything floating....there is none.... I guess its still coming off the excess feeding....I fed it 5 bugs in january.....4 crickets + 1 wax worm. Thats when all this started. The typical got only 3 and red dragon 3 as well....both showed similar symptoms but recovered just with the last trap which seems more normal. I guess the B52 is still on the road to recovery. However, I guess I am more worried about my disturbing it in this state of weakness. I guess the plant does look pretty strong...its corm is definately 2 times the size of the dentate I removed earlier...and the dentate recovered in like a week or less...just continued trap production as if nothing happened. This is how it looks now   I guess I will be still concerned till the new traps form. If you can notice there are atleast 3 traps that havent formed...its like they start from the corm but soon the tips blacken and it rots....2/3 new traps do this. It does seem like there is something eating the new leaves....but I don't see any damage on the 1./3 formed ones....which can also rule out aphids. I am guessing and hoping its still on the excess feeding damage...kinda like excess fertilizing and hoping that it can spring back. this is a formidable fellow and I am really attached to it. The main concern again is if this was a bad move to begin with ...but if you can notice the plant is now pointing to the left which means it can keep growing...before it was pointing down..so that means it is getting conjusted at the growing side. That was one of the main reasons including the fact that the division plants are not getting any light at the far back..now they are bright so I guess they should be able to take off on themselves soon. BTW....good to talk to you after quite a while Carl, hows everything going? |
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Post by vraev on Mar 5, 2007 15:46:48 GMT -5
I was definately soo annoyed trying to put it back inside that at one point I was like....I want to cut off ALL the leaves....but I can never have the heart to do that. |
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Post by Rick Hillier on Mar 5, 2007 18:31:38 GMT -5
Vraev, I've never heard of overfeeding a VFT. My plants that are outside in the bog garden constantly have captured prey inside of every leaf. It is very rare to see an open trap for a day. It does look like something has been working on your plant, though. I'd pot it up in some new soil and see how the subsequent leaves develop. Actually, I do know a sure fire cure to your problem... simply divide that big corm up and send me a piece... I can trade you a dentate for it, as I know that you have a particular affinity for them  >>> Rick <<< |
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Post by martin on Mar 5, 2007 19:12:36 GMT -5
Arent the VFT better off in dormancy right now?
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Post by vraev on Mar 5, 2007 21:24:09 GMT -5
lol Rick! A dentate VFT.......man! I have been looking all over for that cultivar.....especially since its the rarest VFT available in canada.   hmm......I have no new potting soil ... and for a plant this big......no way at all. I was wondering about bagging it up in the fridge for a while....but...hmm....I don't know..... ... I'll see how the fellow goes about now. Well martin, I put only 3 plants in dormancy and this VFT is fresh off TC last sept...so I am skipping dormancy this time for it.. I already took out the dormant plants and only 1 of 3 survived. Luckily the dentate was one of the unfortunate losses (easily replacable)...but the sad loss was a green dragon. In either case, I have my fingers crossed for my B52. . I guess it will be a lesson for me ... whatever is the final result vraev |
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Post by lloyd on Mar 5, 2007 23:19:05 GMT -5
I noted my VFT's looking poorer and poorer over the years without dormancy. I wonder if your VFT's just need that dormancy to normalize their growth patterns. I really don't know but it seemed to be the way with my plants. I'll know soon when I take them out.
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Post by vraev on Mar 6, 2007 1:14:01 GMT -5
I guess if I have to, I can put him to sleep in the fridge. lol! sounds like....lol! Anyways....hmmm.... so you guys really think I should let this go to sleep for now? But its growing wicked. its growth rate is there ..robably even more than other VFT's....only that the new leaves aren't normal.
Wouldn't it be bad if I put a plant which is growing into forced dormancy? SHould I acclaimatise it first?
vraev
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Post by lloyd on Mar 6, 2007 8:25:01 GMT -5
Vraev: so much of this is experimentation. The cultivars we are growing have probably been cloned over and over again and selected for "un-natural" varieties. It still is the best bet to grow them in a way that more or less imitates their natural habitat. However for each plant in each situation it's different. I think if you want to grow temperate plants indoors, then at some point you will have to have them become dormant. The exact details are up to you but a regular routine is probably best. If you want to try to put this latest VFT in dormancy for 6 weeks or so then go ahead. You have to be philosophical about losing the occasional plant.
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Post by sdeering on Mar 6, 2007 11:45:06 GMT -5
If you say it has a corm the size of a golf ball it is not fresh out of tissue culture. I would say it is 2 to 3 years old. It may be a dormancy thing.
Stephen
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Post by mabudon on Mar 6, 2007 11:52:35 GMT -5
Although this is true, you ARE also allowed to curse like a sailor when it happens, THEN you can reflect upon it... Someone at another site said something about how "experience doesn't mean not losing any plants, it only means that when it does happen, you'll have a better understanding of WHY it did ", which is about as true as it gets in my experience so far... And glad to "see" you too Varun, hopefully once the weather clears up we'll get a chance to actually meet up- it'd be cool to see your plants "in real life"  |
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Post by lloyd on Mar 6, 2007 12:14:38 GMT -5
I'm not so sure about that. I still lose fish in my aquariums but I still don't really know why. Is it stress, disease, congenital weakness, who knows. I do know that as with the plants I just mysteriously am able to keep them longer and in a more vigorous state as I get more experience. Maybe with each death some of the life energy goes into each of us and we somehow transfer it into our new arrivals.
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Post by tom on Mar 6, 2007 12:55:43 GMT -5
Loosing plants is an integral part of the hobby for sure... There is a modo in orchid grower that says: "The difference between an expert and a novice is mainly the number of plants he has been allowed to kill". I think the same thing apply to CP. It is sure a deceiving thing, and i know what it means, since I had my collection almost entierely wiped out at differents occasions. And if Syb wouldn't had written me at one of those time (last time in fact) to talk me about CP and this forum, i would have quit CP! As Mabudon said you can *try* to find a reason, explanation so it can became an experience for your growing skills, but there isn't always an evident reason (as Lloyd said), but there's a reason for sure. It is always a good moment to rethink our growing conditions, but to WAIT before doing too much changes... I used to change my growing conditions about every 6 months, resulting by stressed plants which I never saw the benefits of the changes, since before they were nicely settled, i already changed it again... (one of my biggest 'default'(not sure about the term accuracy here, sorry)). One should emphatize to know a plant well too before attempting to grow it, it can avoid a lot of error and stress. If you can have a look on Barry's book, there is a section about this that one should always remember: a plant in cultivation is always a plant some kind of stress. Your work is to minimize it, but loss are inevitable too... I came late in this post so I'll try to cover all what have been said... sorry about that. I agree with the others that a temperate plant can't be treated as a tropical one forever, but you can't just force it to go in dormancy by sticking it into the fridge right away, you need to 'see' that it is in dormancy so you know that all the physiological process allowing this cooling are ready. Second, by all the disturbing by your plant lately, the last thing to do is to add another on the list. Keep it that way for now and wait for recovery, then the next time it goes into a dormant state, put it on the side of a cool windowsill/fridge. As Rick, I dont think overfeeding a VFT is possible, especially since you can feed a trap more than once until it finish its job. I know some problem have been reported with some others genera though. Perhaps its 'unsufficient activity state' slowed the digestion process and some rot occured into the trap, infecting your plant in some way, but even if you said there weren't any, my first thought when i saw your 3rd picture was clearly an aphids damage to me. Good luck with it, and keep us notified! |
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Post by mabudon on Mar 6, 2007 13:08:25 GMT -5
THAT's what I thought too, Tommy, what I was alluding to in fact(and I would guess Lloyd was also hinting at), but didn't want to say it |
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... Well....we'll see if it was a mistake. I honestly don't see any fungus gnat larve or anything....if anything I see springtails.
