Semi Hydroponics

[edwardmelnyk]

Okay, first off, I wasn't quite sure what section to put this in, so if it is in the wrong section, let me know.
So, I've been doing some research on semi hydroponics. Thanks to Astrid (an orchid grower on YouTube), I got an American orchid society membership! I was going through the webinars and came across one about growing orchids semi hydroponically. I believe the man who developed this method for growing orchids - and correct me if I'm wrong - was Ray Barkalow, who was speaking about semi hydroponics and orchids.
Anyways, I have done a bit of research, and I do like the idea a lot. I have decided that I will put 1 or 2 of my plants in semi hydroponics and see how they do. The way that Ray described it, it seems as if some plants could be left untouched for a while, and be okay after a month or two? Which, if is true, could greatly impact how I take care of orchids while I'm gone for extensive periods of time.

Here are the pros I have found so far:
- root growth is amazing
- the roots actually don't rot
- it's an efficient way of getting oxygen to the roots, and watering
- repotting is a breeze, and less stressful on the plants
- the hydroton clay beads can be reused
- over potting isn't really an issue
- it seems to be cheap

And here are some cons:
- fertilizing has to be done every time you water, which might get expensive
- the original transition from organic media to inorganic could hurt the orchid

The only thing that confuses me still is fertilizing (this has confused me for a while as I still don't really know how they work. I suppose the AOS has webinars covering that too.)
Also, I would like to see about growing carnivorous plants semi hydroponically as an idea? Has anyone else done this?
Anyways, please comment your experiences with semi hydroponics for orchids/carnivorous plants here.
Cheers!
Edward
By the way, if you haven't seen Astrid's channel, along with Brittany's channel, they're worth taking a look at:
Brittany - Holy City Orchids
Astrid - Astrid

Also, if you have an AOS membership, I recommend looking for Ray Barkalow's webinar giving a very down to earth, understandable explanation of his developed semi hydroponics. And, if you don't have an AOS membership, and like orchids, I would highly recommend it!

Cheers again,
Edward

[sokkos]

I've put oncidiums in S/H before and they do fairly well. Too well, actually, because from my experience they almost literally grow out of the pot (it could have been the cultivar I had more so than the method). I did find they took a while to get adjusted. I watered everyday to make sure the roots didn't dry out. I've seen people put succulents and clivia in S/H online and they seem to do fairly well.

I can't speak to how CPs will do in S/H because I've never tried before. My gut instinct is the plants would get too dry. I'm also not sure if the salts in the clay will leach out over time to high levels especially if you don't flush out the system completely periodically. I think wick watering might be something to consider for CPs that like it moist but not soaking.

[joeelliott]

I have quite a few orchids growing hydroponically. I only fertilize once a month or so with maxsea since they are in with the CPs. I find that the species that do make the transition do extremely well but if they struggle they seem to die off quickly.

[edwardmelnyk]

Apr 11, 2016 22:07:40 GMT -5 joeelliott said:

I have quite a few orchids growing hydroponically. I only fertilize once a month or so with maxsea since they are in with the CPs. I find that the species that do make the transition do extremely well but if they struggle they seem to die off quickly.

Interesting. Do you have any pictures?

[joeelliott]

My riparium thread is the one to look at, there isnt a spec of dirt in there. I will try to get you an updated pic tomorrow.

[edwardmelnyk]

Apr 11, 2016 22:15:08 GMT -5 joeelliott said:

My riparium thread is the one to look at, there isnt a spec of dirt in there. I will try to get you an updated pic tomorrow.

Cool, sounds good. Do you use super thrive to get the plants ready to be transferred? I was reading also that heating mats, or darker places for a few months can help the plants get adjusted. Do you find this works?

[joeelliott]

No idea what super thrive is and I dont use heat mats or dark places. I cant see dark places helping too uch and heat mats i have never tried so not sure what they might do.

[edwardmelnyk]

Apr 12, 2016 0:45:14 GMT -5 joeelliott said:

No idea what super thrive is and I dont use heat mats or dark places. I cant see dark places helping too uch and heat mats i have never tried so not sure what they might do.

Super thrive is a root boosting hormone that encourages the orchid to grow new roots in its environment, making it less stressful and establishing the plant faster.
The heat mat I believe just helps encourage the orchid to grow new roots.
And you're right, I'm not sure about the whole dark place thing either.

[lloyd]

Superthrive is controversial.

[Apoplast]

Apr 12, 2016 0:45:14 GMT -5 joeelliott said:

No idea what super thrive is

Hi Joe - Not that you asked specifically. But if you are curious, I think Barry Rice puts it best on his page devoted to it.

A couple of excerpts from said page sum it up well though.

Describing the outcome of the study he conducted on the possible benefits of SUPERthrive (emphasis mine):

"After six months of tests we could not detect any significant effect from SUPERthrive--nothing useful of any kind!"

When addressing the remaining defenders of SUPERthrive having any of the self-described benefits on the bottle:

"Well, our challenge still stands--I am waiting for anyone to conduct a scientific test, with statistical merit, proving SUPERthrive is of value in growing carnivorous plants. Our tests have come up empty. Anyone? Anyone?"

Will it damage your plants? Probably not. Will it do them any good whatsoever? Probably not. Best to save the money and effort.

[edwardmelnyk]

Hmm, interesting. I'll have to look into that. For now though, it is all I have to try and give to plants that are going into semi hydroponic to make it less stressful. I should look around for alternatives that might suit it better?

[edwardmelnyk]

Anyways, I have transplanted the first trial orchid, a Miltassia david kleinbach. We shall see how the first few orchids do before actually making my collection move over to semi hydroponics.

Here is the full plant potted up in the hydroton clay beads

Here is the bottom where the water reservoir is, and you can see the amount of space between the clay allowing air in, giving the roots air to breathe.

Basically, I just melted a few holes in the plastic container before potting it up, and it controls the water level.
The whole idea is that the clay beads wick the water up to the roots from the bottom, and there is still air in between the surfaces for the roots to breathe.
We shall see how it goes!

[Apoplast]

Hi edwardmelnyk - It's great you are experimenting with different growing techniques! I certainly don't want to discourage that.

There are a number of people that still use SUPERthrive, including the great and powerful Peter D'Amato. SUPERthrive reminds me of the habit Brits have in placing shards of terracotta pots at the bottom of their potted plants. Just so it's clear, great gardeners those Brits! We've nothing like their national level dedication to plants here in the States, and I am very jealous of that. Back to the pot shards. These are ostensibly placed on the bottom for improved drainage, or so the common knowledge goes. It was news in the UK when a magazine tested the idea (see that dedication to plants?). I can't find the original article online, but here are a couple news articles from:

Daily Mail & Telegraph

Essentially what they found is it made no difference. Though, my back of the envelope calculations from the news articles suggest that given their sample size and number of treatment groups, this was not a statistically robust test. That said, the comments on the Daily Mail article sum up much of the response; essentially "bollocks" was the reply.

This is sort of how dedicated SUPERthrive users respond now. It's a talisman. Much like the pottery bits are for the Brits. People get upset or offended when you are perceived as attacking their beliefs, based not on data but feeling.

What you are doing with your orchids is very cool, and I am really stoked you are sharing it here! I've been thinking about trying a hydroponic setup for my Darlingtonia (won't get to it for a while given the other projects I'm also thinking about - I do a lot more thinking than can coincide with doing). So, I'm very interested in what you are exploring here. But if you are looking for something to add to your protocol that might improve plant performance, and is backed up by some data (though not without disagreement), you might introduce mychorrizae and/or trichoderma inoculant. Just a thought.

Keep us updated, your efforts really are good stuff!

[edwardmelnyk]

Apr 13, 2016 9:32:41 GMT -5 Apoplast said:

Hi edwardmelnyk - It's great you are experimenting with different growing techniques! I certainly don't want to discourage that.

There are a number of people that still use SUPERthrive, including the great and powerful Peter D'Amato. SUPERthrive reminds me of the habit Brits have in placing shards of terracotta pots at the bottom of their potted plants. Just so it's clear, great gardeners those Brits! We've nothing like their national level dedication to plants here in the States, and I am very jealous of that. Back to the pot shards. These are ostensibly placed on the bottom for improved drainage, or so the common knowledge goes. It was news in the UK when a magazine tested the idea (see that dedication to plants?). I can't find the original article online, but here are a couple news articles from:

Daily Mail & Telegraph

Essentially what they found is it made no difference. Though, my back of the envelope calculations from the news articles suggest that given their sample size and number of treatment groups, this was not a statistically robust test. That said, the comments on the Daily Mail article sum up much of the response; essentially "bollocks" was the reply.

This is sort of how dedicated SUPERthrive users respond now. It's a talisman. Much like the pottery bits are for the Brits. People get upset or offended when you are perceived as attacking their beliefs, based not on data but feeling.

What you are doing with your orchids is very cool, and I am really stoked you are sharing it here! I've been thinking about trying a hydroponic setup for my Darlingtonia (won't get to it for a while given the other projects I'm also thinking about - I do a lot more thinking than can coincide with doing). So, I'm very interested in what you are exploring here. But if you are looking for something to add to your protocol that might improve plant performance, and is backed up by some data (though not without disagreement), you might introduce mychorrizae and/or trichoderma inoculant. Just a thought.

Keep us updated, your efforts really are good stuff!

Oh thanks Apoplost! Don't worry, I didn't take it the wrong way at all. I totally get what you mean too. That darlingtonia idea sounds real great, please update me on it if you decide to do it!

[edwardmelnyk]

***UPDATE***
I have transplanted a second and third orchid to semi hydro. It is a complex paphiopedilum hybrid, and then a Catasetum pileatum. I'm quite interested in getting a few catasetinae types and putting them in semi hydro. The first miltassia orchid has had no change, neither good or bad. I expect it'll take a couple of weeks to see new growths. I expect also to transplant up to six plants to semi hydro and wish a bit to see how they do until putting most of my collection in semi hydro.


Thanks for looking! If you have any tips or questions, please reply!