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Post by blokeman on Aug 16, 2009 23:02:05 GMT -5
Now that I have your attention I am going to be going full out, and making a setup that will put my current terras to shame. If you've seen Titom's or Labine's setup, I'd like it to look a lot like that, basic, yet effective. So I hope to make a very basic frame out of 2x4's, I have some Red Oak left over from my dad's deck renovations, the dimensions would be 6 feet wide, 3 feet deep and 3 feet tall(maybe taller). The back wall will be mirror, as well as the sides; I found a couple in garage sales for real cheap. Speaking of walls, they will be plastic sheeting, and maybe I will try gluing some Mylar or other reflective material to the plastic walls. Lighting will be four F48T8’s (two cool white, two warm white) and a F36T5HO. I will remove the ballasts from the housings and place them on the outside of the grow area, as to try to keep the temps down. But just in case, I have made in the past, some pc fans wired in parallel, which can serve as input-output vents. I have to find a way to make it so that if any condensation runs down the walls, it would not accumulate on the floor, my landlord wouldn't be too happy... That's where I am stumped... What can I possibly use as a bottom that will hold water, yet have the dimensions I am looking for?? I was considering pond liner with a small frame within the frame, but that would cost $, and I am trying to make this terra as low cost as possible. Maybe I could use a couple busboy tubs... Rockwool seems to be an ideal medium to keep the humidity up, so the tubs will have a base of that. Anyways, that's the idea behind my brainstorming, now that I have the room for it... long story short: Let's just say I won't be storing any of my fiancées stuff anymore. If anyone has ANY suggestions, anything at all, I am open to criticism/input/opinions... I shall post pics of the steps along the way, from start to finish hopefully, and a one year later after that And BTW, this will be a NEPENTHES setup, Jack's got me on the bandwagon with a Sanguinea, and now rug's Raff... I got bit and it is spreading fast Thanks if you can help
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Post by vraev on Aug 17, 2009 0:11:53 GMT -5
Sounds great man,....just remember that which such a huuuuge area....a lot of problems start coming in... ...that lighting is iffy...for such a depth...perhaps a metal halide or sodium vapor might do justice. And if you want to grow highlanders in there....that opens another new can of worms with the cooling....basically any conventional methods won't be sufficient...I don't know if even Z's current water chiller will work...you need a lot more powerful cooler for that size. Just keep this in mind. I would personally first go small scale. And.....if you want my suggestion....at a size of 6 feet....I would rather go and make something like Rug's greenhouse/Sdeering's indoor greenhouse etc. Just a lot more economical and easy than a 6 foot tank.
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Post by sherkas on Aug 17, 2009 0:56:33 GMT -5
what ive done for one of mine is using 2x4 and plywood. I work construction around new houses andthey throw away WAY too much wood, so I just take that and use it, you could also drive to a newly framed house and just pick what you want out of the dumpers for wood btw.
I did a plywood bottom with 2x4 ripped in half (or you could just do a 2x4 edge). I then bought some poly plastic heavy duty, (I use it for work anyways) and just super glued that down to form a couple inch tray on the bottom that was custom demensions, but with heavy duty poly it has big area to wrap around anything, and it wont rip at all from any movement or tools dropped on it.
I will post up a picture tomorrow of mine so you can see, but its really cheap and allows you to custom do anything.
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Post by carnivoure12 on Aug 17, 2009 8:00:22 GMT -5
Vraev is partly correct, I'd suggest you take readings of each room, temperature would be the most important. See which room is best suited for which type of nepenthes. Lowlanders tend to be bigger, and grow faster. Highlanders grow slower and smaller.
So if you have natural highland conditions in one of yourrooms (eg, my room, great highland conditions in the winter) you won't need to do anything. So its better if you do some temperature investigation.
Therefore you know what to get from the beginning.
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Post by vraev on Aug 17, 2009 18:24:59 GMT -5
What am I wrong about?? LOL! Just out of curiousity.
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Post by carnivoure12 on Aug 17, 2009 20:15:08 GMT -5
Oh no, you're info isn't wrong, i'm just saying that massive 'work' you keep mentioning might not be necessary if you naturally have those conditions
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Post by vraev on Aug 17, 2009 20:58:22 GMT -5
aaaaaah!!! Well...I "PERSONALLY" still think that for such a "square feet" of growing area and height....I would rather get a small greenhouse. But thats just me. I wouldn't go for a tank larger than 4 feet. But by all means....it will be an impressive build when u pull it off and will be definitely fascinating to see Bloke through the process.
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Post by prmills on Aug 17, 2009 21:14:00 GMT -5
Are your plans without a bottom then? If you make a plywood bottom raised up on 2x4's, you could have one corner lower than the rest and have it drain out into a container. With one that big, you may also want to have the front "wall" hindge somehow so it doesn't become an adventure dealing with stuff inside it. Do what Carn said also. Highlanders and Canada seem to go hand in hand. Personally it would take a lot more equipment to make a lowland setup (heaters, humidifiers, temperature based "timers" for them, etc...). For lights, to "penatrate" 3ft with florescent lights I imagine you need something really strong. My 4 4ft T8's for my tank still need to be at the most 6"-10" away from the plants or it's not enough light to get any colour. I don't know what the T5's are like, maybe someone else can say something about that. For a thought, as sherkas and vraev said, you could also try and make a home-made type greenhouse with the framing out of 2x4's and then plastic sheeting in it. Have the sheeting curled inside and angled into a bucket or something for the condinsation. Or go all out, make a frame inside that room with 2x4's then wrap the inside with the sheeting on all sides including the top and bottom, then you'll have a space good enough for a year or two Cheers!
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Post by blokeman on Aug 18, 2009 0:40:46 GMT -5
vraev: so long as I can borrow a cam (lost my battery charger for mine) everything will be posted here, and on TF as well. You guys and gals will be able to share the experience alongside me prmills: you know, having it on an slant is a brilliant idea, someone had mentionned to me that I should make a raised platform, but didn't think to make it inclined. As for the hinged door, i was thinking of making a sliding door type setup, one in front of the other, with mirrors I have lying around. Can mirrors be cut? If that doesn't work, I was thinking along the lines of using plastic sheeting with velcro to keep it shut, but the bond between the plastic and velcro has to be stronger than the velcro itself, which might cause problems. About this greenhouse you speak of, this setup will be in a west facing room, getting a good 5-6 hours direct light. I'd be curious to see what you are talking about, as I have plenty of spare wood that it could be feasable. Could you guys pm me a couple links to your pics so I have a general idea of what you are trying to put across. Once again, this setup is me trying to spend as little as possible, so if i were to go GH style, I'd need shelving, and yes i could incorproate it in the build, but I only have so much wood available, I'm just trying to keep it as simple as possible. So about this runoff, can I collect that water, and reuse it to water the following neps or other cp's? I'd assume so, eh. About T5's, I have two, at about 12-14 inches from my plants, 6400k, and I have no coloration on my dews, pings (eg, my pirouette came pink, but is now lime green) etc. Maybe it's the type of tube I'm using; wrong color temp. Maybe adding a 5000k or a 3200k would help... I'll keep you all posted as this comes along.
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Post by briar on Aug 18, 2009 8:37:27 GMT -5
About T5's, I have two, at about 12-14 inches from my plants, 6400k, and I have no coloration on my dews, pings (eg, my pirouette came pink, but is now lime green) etc. Maybe it's the type of tube I'm using; wrong color temp. Maybe adding a 5000k or a 3200k would help... I'll keep you all posted as this comes along. Without knowing the wattage and bulb design it sounds like a reflector issue to me... Reflector design is critical to good lighting, I had rather have a T12 with good reflector then a t5 with no reflector Proper reflector design can make a 3 fold increase in usuable light energy FWIW, I keep my helis no further then 6-8" from the bulbs Remember the inverse square law for light hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/vision/isql.htmlBriar
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Post by mabudon on Aug 18, 2009 9:31:06 GMT -5
You can cut mirrors Bloke, just like glass- the edges might look a little goofy as the reflective stuff might chip a little but it'll be fine
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Post by ellsie on Aug 18, 2009 11:05:24 GMT -5
Hey Blokeman,
Do you know if those mirrors you picked up are made with aluminum or silver?? That might be a something to consider, since CP's and aluminum don't mix well, although I'm just speculating here.
Also, the Red Oak wood you picked up, is it "treated"?? I'm not too familiar with what types of wood are treated, but it yours is, you might not want to collect the run off water to water your CP's.
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Post by briar on Aug 18, 2009 12:57:06 GMT -5
Also, when it comes to mirrors... a first surface mirror is much more efficient at reflecting light than a second surface (typical) mirror. However they are not very common outside of special applications. The issue with "typical" mirrors is the light has to travel through the glass twice. Highly polished aluminum can be as high as 95% efficient in the desired wavelengths (e.g., good quality T5 reflector material) It all has to do with the emissivity, absorbtivity, reflectivity and the transmissivity of the material as it relates to the spectra in question and if your goal is specular or diffuse reflection. Just more stuff that makes your brain hurt Briar
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Post by prmills on Aug 18, 2009 20:00:35 GMT -5
Briar - I never knew that about light, makes sense. That is some very useful info.
Petmantis - If it's getting direct light, maybe just have the it setup so the light hits the most amount of mirrors for the longest so it can be bounced around. But you'd still have to worry about heat build up, but not so much due to it being morning light. As for pics, I don't have any. Just a basic type of greenhouse or something like that. For run off water, you'd have to test it in case the TDS goes up due to the plastic. Maybe I'm wrong though...
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Post by sherkas on Aug 18, 2009 22:48:31 GMT -5
I would either make a box out of plastic and drape plastic over it so it drains into a sub floor slanted to allow extra drainage, (and for flushing plants and runoff). Or you can build a box out of wood and glue the plastic on the inside (so there is no holes) and then setup everything inside.
For lights, I would go high power, maybe buy a 100 or 250 watt CFL bulb and seperate it with glass from the plants so the moisture doesn't kill it (the bulb) and use that one bulb as a suppliment.
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