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Post by craigam on Jul 15, 2017 16:03:45 GMT -5
Guys, I've been contemplating different methods for a Highlander setup and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips for me?
I have a 5-tier grow rack (36x18x72), and I'm planning on using the bottom tier for Highlanders and insulating it.
I've thought about using a peltier chip, but that doesn't seem all that efficient. I've also thought about using a 6 pack mini-fridge, drilling a hole into it and running a hose from that hole into the bottom tier, with a CPU fan at the end of it. I'm not sure if that'll provide a good enough temperature drop though.
Anyone have any experience with this or any other ideas?
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Post by atom on Jul 15, 2017 16:32:45 GMT -5
I'm not too experienced at all, but I'm in the process of moving some plants and here's an idea I came up with that may stir up some creativity.
I've got large styrofoam boxes and I'll be adding ice packs in there to keep things cooler during transport. This might get tiring over time if you have to do this every day for your plants, but maybe styrofoam can insulate it for a decent amount of time?
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Post by Apoplast on Jul 15, 2017 20:02:54 GMT -5
Hi craigam - Normally I would direct you to the setup Avery built, but as Photobucket decided to torpedo their business plan recently, it's less informative than it was without photos. Still, the text is useful. Honestly, there are a number of great setups folks here have built. Wander through the threads on the indoor growing board. Plus, you can likely get clues from the Heli posts and highland nep posts. If you want to see which setups are working out well for the plants, you can also scam on the plant of the month contests. Of course if you have specific questions, there are lots of knowledgeable folks here who are more than happy t share their expertise. Good luck, and keep us posted.
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Post by Justintime on Jul 15, 2017 20:54:28 GMT -5
I'll be posting my build after it's completed but till then you'll have to wait. I'll need about 40$ to finish it o I'll be selling some plants.
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Post by WillyCKH on Jul 16, 2017 0:14:46 GMT -5
I miss seeing Avery's epic build and many other old posts... Shame on PB. Have you thought of a wine cooler? I've seen some with clean door that can be transformed into a terrarium easily. Willy
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Post by craigam on Jul 16, 2017 21:00:41 GMT -5
I miss seeing Avery's epic build and many other old posts... Shame on PB. Have you thought of a wine cooler? I've seen some with clean door that can be transformed into a terrarium easily. Willy Like, keep the plants inside the wine cooler? I considered it, but I'd hate to see this 5-tier rack we bought go to waste as of now.
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Post by craigam on Jul 24, 2017 14:10:43 GMT -5
youtu.be/clZsykBt4YAAnyone have any thoughts on that? He achieves -7C in like a 1gal setup it looks like. I just bought an 18gal storage container. He uses a 230W peltier chip. Any way of figuring out how much of a drop it would give in my 18gal? I'd even be happy with 10-12C tbh.
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Post by Apoplast on Jul 24, 2017 15:05:02 GMT -5
Hi Craigam - I've worked with thermoelectric cooling a bit before. It's not suitable for larger applications, at least not in a practical sense. Assuming linear scaling from his 1 gal setup to your 18 gal, you would need 3,600 watts for just the cooling plates (this does not include any added fans and heatsink draw of power). Using a general conversion equation for watts to BTU, you get a little more than 12K BTU of cooling needed. That's roughly equivalent to a window unit A/C. Admittedly it will take significantly less power to get you to 10 rather than -7, but it is still not an efficient way to cool a volume of air that large. This is why we haven't seen thermoelectric home A/C take off.
The other thing is that ice that built up on the cooling unit in his demo. It happened really fast and I'm guessing his cooler was filled with ambient air, not high humidity air with wet plants. This will cause two problems. The first is that the ice over will dramatically reduce efficiency of the cooling side, plus freeze the fan solid. Even if you can correct that, you will still be taking humidity out of the air at a rapid rate, which is not something highland plants typically like (with notable Altiplano and Tibetan exceptions). All this said, there may be workarounds for these issues, but they will add cost and maintenance.
I'm currently working on changing a grow room over to being a new highland room that will be water cooled. I'm hoping this works. If so, I'll post about it here (of wherever this forum lands). I'll be running a 1/4 hp aquarium chiller into a 100 quart marine cooler to maintain the water at about 10C. Then I'll have a thermostat control for a can fan running through a heat exchange and submersible pump to do the actual cooling of the air. I am hoping that this will prevent the humidity loss I've been experiencing with an A/C unit as well as give me greater control over my temperatures. We'll see.
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Post by craigam on Jul 24, 2017 16:36:44 GMT -5
Hi Craigam - I've worked with thermoelectric cooling a bit before. It's not suitable for larger applications, at least not in a practical sense. Assuming linear scaling from his 1 gal setup to your 18 gal, you would need 3,600 watts for just the cooling plates (this does not include any added fans and heatsink draw of power). Using a general conversion equation for watts to BTU, you get a little more than 12K BTU of cooling needed. That's roughly equivalent to a window unit A/C. Admittedly it will take significantly less power to get you to 10 rather than -7, but it is still not an efficient way to cool a volume of air that large. This is why we haven't seen thermoelectric home A/C take off. The other thing is that ice that built up on the cooling unit in his demo. It happened really fast and I'm guessing his cooler was filled with ambient air, not high humidity air with wet plants. This will cause two problems. The first is that the ice over will dramatically reduce efficiency of the cooling side, plus freeze the fan solid. Even if you can correct that, you will still be taking humidity out of the air at a rapid rate, which is not something highland plants typically like (with notable Altiplano and Tibetan exceptions). All this said, there may be workarounds for these issues, but they will add cost and maintenance. I'm currently working on changing a grow room over to being a new highland room that will be water cooled. I'm hoping this works. If so, I'll post about it here (of wherever this forum lands). I'll be running a 1/4 hp aquarium chiller into a 100 quart marine cooler to maintain the water at about 10C. Then I'll have a thermostat control for a can fan running through a heat exchange and submersible pump to do the actual cooling of the air. I am hoping that this will prevent the humidity loss I've been experiencing with an A/C unit as well as give me greater control over my temperatures. We'll see. Thanks for the information Apoplast. The other thing i considered was using an ice cooler (filled with frozen ice packs) sitting on top, with two PVC elbows coming out of it and fans on the inside to run the air into the terrarium. Though I'm not sure what I can achieve with that either. Something like this for reference: I believe he has 2 CPU fans on the inside where the PVC pipes are to draw the cool air out of the ice cooler. What do you think?
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Post by Apoplast on Jul 24, 2017 21:12:10 GMT -5
Hi Craigam - Outside of the egregious use of the quote function here (sorry I had to tease you a bit), that looks like a pretty good system.
Pros: Simple, so unlikely to fail Shouldn't dehumidify too much (though will a bit - which is kind of true of nearly all cooling*) Likely to have some decent cooling in small spaces
Cons: High maintenance, having to put ice in daily Can't leave home for extended periods Can't scale up
As an intro system in a small area, I think it could work well. Personally, I'd hook the fans up to a plug in thermostat to maintain better control. But if you travel often, it's not going to be a great option. Very creative!
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Post by Justintime on Jul 24, 2017 22:26:54 GMT -5
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Post by Avery on Jul 25, 2017 16:27:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the shout out Apoplast ! My plants are still doing reasonably well, but I'm running out of room. The system that I use works quite well, and I've been lucky to be able to travel for periods of 3 weeks or more with no problems. That being said, it's not perfect, and it's too small! I'm currently building a new one that will use a different (and hopefully much more efficient) approach to cooling. It will take time to collect all the components to put it together. Once again it will be automated. I'm not sure that my current setup is worthy of putting together another thread. But perhaps my new one will be! Too bad about the Photobucket photos. I can always start a thread with plant pics in it, would just be nice to find somewhere reliable (and free) to host them. I do occasionally post on Instagram if anyone uses that @averysterrarium
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Post by RuBisCO on Jul 25, 2017 23:10:06 GMT -5
I'm unabashedly a proponent of my own system of dehumidifier cooling with CPU cooling radiator/fan and brew-your-own beer plumbing. It offers a small footprint, easy modulation, and overall efficiency. I will have to get an updated photo thread - thanks photobucket - but this and a MistKing watering setup has been pure gold.
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Post by Apoplast on Jul 26, 2017 14:13:06 GMT -5
I'm unabashedly a proponent of my own system You are rightly proud of your build RuBisCO! It's really impressive, and a great use of materials. I hope there was no offense taken that I didn't previously mention your build directly. The only reason I didn't is that I think your build is a little more complex, especially for someone asking about setting up their first one. Anytime people start openly playing with compression lines like I recall you've done (can't be sure thanks to stupid PB shutting down of everyone's pictures), I start thinking of a build in terms of in more advanced setup category. I guess I think of it along the lines that if someone was asking about changing over to LED's and I told them to check out Varun or Willy's builds - they are amazing, but it might seem a little overwhelming too. So, I'd probably offer information to something that seemed more within reach. Anyhow, I just wanted to explain because I truly think your build is impressive! Hi Justintime - Glad if anything I've said is useful. Seems unlikely, but you never know. Your current setup looks pretty sweet, but I'll be looking forward to seeing the new system! Hi Avery - I was wondering when you were going to outgrow your current setup. I'll be curious about this more efficient cooling you have in the works. Looks like we'll got a lot of new builds to help fill a new forum!
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Post by WillyCKH on Jul 26, 2017 14:41:46 GMT -5
I heard my name! Yay! hahaha
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