Beginners Guide To Carnivorous Plant Cultivation

[lloyd]

"capturing animals ant the useage of their nutrient directly"

And of course, Steve reveals by a Freudian slip, that he wants to include ANT PLANTS!

🤓

[Apoplast]

Hi Dennis - The Puya speculation is just that until someone shows that there is a high likelihood of mammals being caught in Puya, and that the resultant nutrients benefit the plants, and then that these leaf serrations are more effective at capture than other species or other designs (i.e that they show evidence they are under selection for capturing animals). That last part is the selective element. You need to show the plant is under positive selection for the capacity to capture nutrients from animals.

A couple years ago it was shown that common teasel can and does capture insects in rainwater trapped in its leaf bases. Further these nutrients improved the seed set, which has a large impact on the fitness of an biennial plant species like teasel. However there is no suggestion that there has been strong selection for teasel to develop this water holding ability for this purpose. It is likely incidental capture and use of nutrients. Plants are capable of using nutrients in a wide variety of ways. Few would suggest their orchids, or house plants have been under selection for disproportionate nutrient uptake through their leaves, however foliar fertilizers work just fine.

In contrast, the glandular trichomes on Stylidium, can take up nutrients, but one of the things that struck me in habitat in Western Australia was that they were almost entirely devoid of insects stuck to them, while you'd be hard pressed to find a single leaf of any of the many Drosera species without prey. Not a great source of nutrients if they don't catch insects. So, can they digest insects, probably. Do they in habitat? Not that I've seen.

The point is that carnivory is simply a modification of structures and nutrient paths that already exist. It is only by making comparative examinations in an ecological and evolutionary context that we can say anything about plants that acquire nutrients from animals. In the context of what genera are likely under strong selection for carnivoroy by gaining significant nutrients from insects they capture, for a basic list Roridula in, Stylidum out. I recognize you and I are unlikely to agree on this, but I wanted to at least make my case. Thanks for reading through!

Hi stevebooth - Absolutely, anytime you want to talk details of plant nutrient acquisition, PM me. I love this stuff! Interesting side note, you can totally get tomatoes to produce protease enzymes through their tricomes. All plants produce them of course. They need them to break down their own tissues under various circumstances to recycle nutrients. It's really a matter of where and when they are produced. It's also why the presence of "digestive" enzymes and labeled isotope tracing are piss poor means of assessing carnivory in plants. Not only acquisition, but plants also move nutrients around in really cool ways too! Think about the massive pumpkins that can weigh over 900kg, and can put on kgs every day. All of that, water weight and all, is transported through the phloem. Active transport at cost. When you think about the activity rates of the transport proteins, and... Okay, I'm getting started. You are correct, this is not the right spot. Sorry everyone.

[Dennis Z]

Thanks for the detailed response Apoplast. Perhaps we can have a separate thread to debate this? I'd also like to say that although you have observed phenomena in nature, the presence of structures and chemicals are evidence that they are used for "eating insects" unless you are suggesting that they are vestigial... Also, sure many plants excrete proteases as well, but the matter of fact is that these proteases may be geared towards a different function and many plants have no structures to capture insects in the first place. I probably shouldn't be one trying to argue with a well educated fellow in botany and evolution like yourself but I definitely enjoy reading the things you have to say.

lloyd I'm working on an ant plant FAQ.

[Dennis Z]

Moderators, is it possible to allow me to edit my post? I'm pretty convinced that Roridula should belong in the "carnivorous" rather than the "protocarnivorous" category.