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Post by hebtwo on Aug 11, 2015 21:47:27 GMT -5
As a side note I would Like to mention that all plants were originally poached, so if it wasn't for people going into the wild and "illegally" collecting seeds, growing them out breeding and then sustainably putting those seed back in the wild is obviously the best choice, but if poaching didn't exsist at all then none of us would have ANY plants, and in fact there are some places on the planet where it's illegal to own ANY plant at all. I think it's overreaching to say that every plant was originally poached or illegally collected. Obviously horticulture is based on the propagation and distribution of seeds and plants originating from 'wild' sources. BUT, to say they were poached really implies a heinous and irresponsible act without regard to the consequences or long term effects of said act. The first man (or woman) that took a tomato and planted the seeds isn't a poacher. I'm sure we would all agree that the majority of plants available to collectors and horticulturalists (and farmers and gardeners) have been harvested or collected at some point over the past 100,000 years from natural and wild sources (responsibly or irresponsibly).
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Post by eithan0693 on Aug 11, 2015 21:59:11 GMT -5
No, I just mean seeds had to of come from nature, they had to be wild at some point and taking those seeds so we could domesticate them would be poaching nowadays.. collecting an illegal plant or from protected areas is still poaching even If your being 100% responsibile.. I think that an effort should be made to ensure all species survive.
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Post by lloyd on Aug 11, 2015 23:18:28 GMT -5
At some point, dandelions were harvested from the wild. I doubt whether anyone would call this poaching. Also poaching is a legalistic term. Before conservation laws/ethics were developed, there could be no contravention of such laws/ethics. Now such rules exist and we acknowledge their validity.
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Post by eithan0693 on Aug 11, 2015 23:23:44 GMT -5
That's why I don't poach and if I know the source is, I wouldn't buy from them I agree with what your saying. I just think some leyway should be made so the species can be expanded and I would sure love the seeds to be available on the way . Of coarse i have a bit of greed mixed in there and I recognise that, at the same time I would never let that be a reason to condone a species going extinct in the wild.
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Post by bcmosaic on Aug 13, 2015 21:19:44 GMT -5
I can appreciate both views but let’s just switch out the endangered/illegal item for another item for discussion’s sake. Let’s consider ivory – something that I have been involved in since 1979. Here’s what was happening in the ivory trade. The Asian market, which is huge (I’m not type casting here – ivory is a part of their culture) would put out a call for elephant ivory. Poachers would do their thing and hunt down these majestic creatures – the only other animal besides man that sheds tears of sorrow. Inevitably some poachers would get caught and the ivory confiscated and stored in a warehouse. After accumulating a substantial amount of tusks the (poor) African nation would then auction off the illegal poached ivory. This then makes the illegal ivory now legal. The winner of the auction would then slip in the still illegal poached ivory in with the legal and it all comes into their country safe and sound and legal. Kenya was in such a position back in the early 1980’s. But this time they took their confiscated ivory, all 12 tonnes of it, doused it in gasoline and set it ablaze. Bravo!! The loop was broken. I believe that Hong Kong just recently did the same thing. While it pains to see such beautiful material go up in smoke it was the best decision ever. They broke the continuous loop of illegal ivory getting into the market legally. So saying because the seeds are already on hand let‘s not waste them is ……well, pretty lame. The loop will continue. The seeds will continue to get harvested until there are none left because of that mentality. Imagine if Ricardo had the last seeds ever of a species, what would that be worth to Ricardo dollar-wise? His personal goal eventually? If nobody ever buys from Ricardo or any other poacher then these guys will have to look at other means of making money. Maybe they’ll do something like South Korea is doing – cloning a mammoth (rolling my eyes) but that’s another story.
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Post by eithan0693 on Aug 13, 2015 21:36:35 GMT -5
Beautifully worded.
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Post by eithan0693 on Aug 14, 2015 0:31:36 GMT -5
I would like to mention that you have to kill a whole elephant to get 2 tusks, where as plants you don't have to kill. There is no chance of the species living on when you kill elephants for their tusks, scientists could go collect seeds then propagate them and reintroduce them into the wild to refresh the species and increase numbers in the wild. So I agree that any random fool shouldn't be poaching/ collecting seeds from endangered plants , I still think someone with the skill to do it right should be doing it... And then providing me with the seeds I want , of coarse there's personal greed in there I am human after all. I still wish no unnecessary harm apon any living being .
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Post by dvg on Aug 29, 2015 12:01:53 GMT -5
"and in fact there are some places on the planet where it's illegal to own ANY plant at all." Even a rutabaga? Only if it fell off the turnip truck... dvg
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Post by lloyd on Aug 29, 2015 18:38:12 GMT -5
Turnips are not rutabagas!
(Actually, there's some controversy on the subject.)
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