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Post by tom on Jul 2, 2009 9:31:33 GMT -5
Hi,
with a relatively interesting number of cpers on the forum involved into TC and our (quite unique? a lot of forums except perhaps world of carnivores aren't too 'shary' about TC) sharing of CP TC infos, i believe a lot of OCPS members are getting successful in putting material into TC.
This arise a possibility: trading/sharing TCed material. Shipping sterile material in flask can be done by filling the flasks with sterile vermiculite prior to shipping. It could be an easy and a goo way to 'saving work and time' (ouch, my engish is getting poor today... need some coffee!), as well as making back up of TCed material.
I've done it once in the past with Keehns, sending him flasks of H. minor and Darlingtonia, and it seems to have worked properly, H. minor having been added to his catalog.
What do you, home TCers, think of this option? Interesting or pure utopy?
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Post by hackerberry on Jul 2, 2009 9:35:09 GMT -5
This is a very interesting concept and I myself will be willing to trade or even buy flasked materials. You can post any flasked plants that you want for trade or sale and someone would definitely grab it.
hb
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Post by lloyd on Jul 2, 2009 9:35:28 GMT -5
I think it's a great idea, Tom. My technique isn't good enough to share though-too much mould problems when I transfer. I'll have to wait until I build a laminar flow hood.
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Post by renesis on Jul 2, 2009 18:54:56 GMT -5
I would love to get involved in this!
My cultures are just in the beginning stages however, probably won't be until at least Winter that I'll have something worthwhile to contribute. The flow hood works though!
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Post by sdeering on Jul 2, 2009 20:24:17 GMT -5
I dont have anything in TC at the moment but your idea sounds great. I will get some cultures starrted. Stephen
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Post by blokeman on Jul 5, 2009 2:55:36 GMT -5
So what's so controvertial about sharing knowledge... I do my best to share what i know about cp's, what is this holy grail of TC? So is it like, well if everyone can propagate plants, there won't be any more to sell? type of situation? TC REALLY REALLY interests me, but i saw a kit go for over 300$, now obviously, that's a scam, yes it is a product that probably works, and well... but i'm assuming it can be purchased for a fraction of that price... So maybe one day, i'll venture down this alley, but as for now, i will stick with botany and not biochemistry AND I would buy TC'd plants if i could get something worthwhile. But personally, it's too bad people keep to themselves when it comes to sharing TC knowledge, but i think it might root from their efforts in trial and error, and not wanting people to have to skip all the poopy bad experiences that comes with 'learning from your mistakes.'
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Post by cpsrus on Jul 5, 2009 5:50:26 GMT -5
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Post by renesis on Jul 5, 2009 9:12:32 GMT -5
Well, being in the hort. field right now, the people I have met at nurseries that do TC keep everything close to their chest in fear that others may copy their methods that they have found to be successful. However, one of them told me - the real reason is they don't want others to find out how easy it actually is to clone many of the popular and more expensive ornamental plants. There's a lot of money in TC. With the carnivorous plants though, and with us doing it - I think its more of that we're still unsure on our methods and haven't really perfected the process for several of the plants. At least I know that's the case with me, I don't want to give bad advice- but am willing to share any of my failures and successes and will have no problem in sharing any techniques or cultures once I'm successful. If you are going to try getting into TC soon, you should check out the FAQ some of the members at flytrapcare put together collectively. Its still in progress but there's a lot of good info: www.flytrapcare.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1426
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Post by tom on Jul 5, 2009 9:42:26 GMT -5
I have to agree with Renesis, and to add a few things : Well, TC can be a complicated matter, and its not just about protocols! equipement can be very costly, working on TC is also time expensive, success isnt garanteed and contamination can happens anytime. A little amount of luck is sometime needed too . Considered the massive initial investment for a 'serious' lab (for earning your living for example), plus the time to produce, multiply, unflask and acclimatize/weaning the plants are all steps where there is no incomes, it is easily understandable that TC is a bit of a secret except that for the real basics. This 'secrecy' is also true for all *rare* plants related production, such as orchids, since after all those work, money and risk, you dont wish to be 'shortcut' by a competitor by having shared *all* your knowledge. This, I'll use Wistuba as an example (strictly as a successful TCer, and by no means i meant that he doesnt want to share his protocols, which i dont know), which carry a unique catalog regarding Nep and Heliamphora. Would he tells his recipe for putting Heliamphora in TC, via meristem culture if he knows how? I dont think so, and i can't blame him. The problem is that every TCers have somewhere a 'secret dream' to mass produce plants and propagate/sell CP/plants for a living. Unfortunatly, it isnt possible for a fair number of reasons i will not enumerate in this post, but the possibility of becoming a 'serious TCer' often hold the will of sharing knowledge even at amateur level, in fear of being 'overcome' by another in this niche market. Unfortunatly, very few will succeed, and good idea are lost in the process, as well as CP diversity and availability. TC can be fun and rewarding as a hobby, i think it can improve the global/national availability of plants without endangering commercial suppliers already in place. In fact, i do believe it just can help the hobby, making a bit more plants in circulation, traded in local horticultural fairs or within CPers, making the hobby more popular and increasing the 'customers base' markets, which in return will be a benefits to any commercial suppliers. Canada's CP scene is a bit unique too regarding CP. I dont know if its a matter that commercial and steady supply of CP are rather rare in a long time span, or because the scarcity of hobbyists either in a geographical term than in term of number, or if it is just the canadian nature, but we are rather 'shary' in general. I have yet to met a greedy cper in Canada, or an arrogant one. People share advices, gives plants, have build a society/fees-free way to do group order without an 'official' structure (dont want to bring up the old OCPS story btw), and it worked! Perhaps its this 'canadian way to be' which make this TC forum more handy and helpful, having learned to help each others for obtaining CP as being a way of living the hobby, which lead to share tips and protocols, i dont know. A lot is still to do, but i think we have a good base for it. Of course, putting a protocol all by yourself is more rewarding for self-esteem, and just like trading CP, i think its a matter of being well-maneered and building a relation of giver/receiver with others TCers. And as with a lot of things, 1 thing can work for one and wouldnt for another one. But i do think there is some place to share TC knowledge, at least some of the principal lines regarding a protocol, technique, media... just like CP cultivation in fact. Validating or invalidating data can already be a good start, suggestions of best hormones withing a PGR family, trial of disinfection protocol/products. Even just genera related guidelines can be a nice improvements from whats being available online and/or trading flasks can save time, money, and push some investigation a little furthers if we're more to play with the same material to come to common end (flask - multiply - root - unflask - smile ) It's not necessarily a question to give it all, but neither to keep it all. And about giving bad advices: even bad advices can either lead to a constructive discussion about techniques, or enlight others to a perspectives they haven't thought of, which once 'retouched' would lead to something new and helpful. We aren't much of a 'bashing' type of forums, so i think pretty much can be discussed and optimized in a civilized way well, my 2 cents
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Post by lloyd on Jul 5, 2009 18:32:44 GMT -5
You definitely do not have to spend a lot of money at least at first, you can start off really simple and build up to more complicated later. Also one thing I like about TC is that you can leave seeds in the medium for months+++ as they grow, requiring almost zero user input. I have some P. pumila flowering in a bottle from seed-absolutely no care beyond the initial flasking.
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Post by tom on Jul 6, 2009 20:21:43 GMT -5
well said Lloyd! any chances to see that in vitro P. pumila flower?
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Post by lloyd on Jul 6, 2009 21:32:54 GMT -5
P. pumila in flower in TC D. rupicola red and green in TC (seed from Khoas) My weird ceph from seed from TC U. uniflora (not from TC) U. longifolia also not from TC-I just like the flower
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Post by tael on Jul 6, 2009 21:45:02 GMT -5
Wow, very nice Lloyd! Your ceph is soooo cute! And the utrics look great, I'm jealous! How large is the uniflora flower?
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Post by lloyd on Jul 6, 2009 22:30:19 GMT -5
The uniflora flower is a cm. across.
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Post by dvg on Jul 6, 2009 23:48:38 GMT -5
Everything's looking very healthy. You do nice work with your tc.
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