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Post by sdeering on Feb 2, 2007 1:16:47 GMT -5
Anyone know the rules. Say ping or nep seed?
I take it leagally would be a Phytosanitary inspection and maybe a CITES. Anyone get a 3 year permit like Jim scott has. Thanks Stephen
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Post by insectivore on Feb 2, 2007 7:26:50 GMT -5
I don't think there is any... Since there can't realy be any bugs on seeds and that there is no live plant material... Lets wait for people that got more experience with this... Cya
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Sean
Seedling
Ponds & Bogs are My Life...
Posts: 82
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Post by Sean on Feb 2, 2007 7:50:16 GMT -5
I saw your thread at Terraforums get the kibosh. There are no restrictions for importing seed for CP's into Canada like there is withing the USA in certain states. They are not considered noxious weeds here because our winters will kill any that could escape into wild populations and become a nuisance. Any that will thrive here outdoors are probably already native.
CITIES does not apply to seed, only live plants. I don't understand what they are talking about with the sale of endangered seed? There are no restrictions if it is propagated in a private collection.
Cheers, Sean
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Post by sdeering on Feb 2, 2007 9:03:17 GMT -5
Thanks Sean
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Post by mabudon on Feb 2, 2007 9:04:29 GMT -5
I think the problem was mention of S.oreophila and the other one- you can't do ANYTHING with ANY part of that species unless it's been hybridized at which point you're okay
I sopke to a CITES person on the phone a year or so ago- Jimscott was visiting and would bring a Ceph leaf to me as long as we could get things "legal" (we didn't BTW, he couldn't figure out where to get a phyto on such short notice)
Surprisingly, the CITES "rep" (dunno what else to call them but I'm sure "rep" is wrong) couldn't even find Cephs in the database- it was recommended for removal in 1996 and I think it stuck, as apparently 70 something percent of it's raneg is protected land or something and folks generally do NOT get them from the wild
So the "rep" said a phyto and a picture of the species (ideally with a description) would get the thing acros safe "in hand". But since I used the common name "Albany Pitcher Plant" he cautioned me that trying to bring ANY North American Sarr across "in hand" would be extremely difficult no matter what, due to the 2 super-endangered species (and the fact tyhat telling them apart is not easy for a non-CP person)
Hope that helps
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Post by sdeering on Feb 2, 2007 9:28:14 GMT -5
I had no idea these were indangered. Otherwise I wouldnt have offered them for trade. I guess I will just have to give them to someone I know that grows this kind of plant Hmmmmmm.....
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Post by Flytrap on Feb 2, 2007 11:24:49 GMT -5
Seeds ARE regulated by CITES. If any of you have received seeds from our ICPS seedbank, you'll note that there is a memo for customs inspectors that read, "dear Inspector....no seeds contained under CITES I". My understanding is that CITES II species will also be considered for monitoring. For clarification of some of their rules, check out: www.cites.org/Late last summer, "Leilani", our Nep colleague from Hawaii sent me a pile of Nep seeds. It got stopped at FedEx and eventually got destroyed. Leilani tells me next time he will not declare the contents for customs info. So as we all discussed on another thread earlier, rules are not made up by sane people, but by "well meaning" beaurocrats who know squat about reality. And I am one of the opinion that they're doing more harm than good by imposing rules that look at everyone as a criminal.
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Post by martin on Feb 2, 2007 18:28:15 GMT -5
If I understand correctly, the same plants listed in the CITES appendicies I, II & III will be controlled for seeds also? www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtmlFor example, N. rajah (CITES appendix I) seeds will me controlled, but N. lowii seeds wont? As an interesting fact, I found that the genus Byblis was once in CITES appendix II, but was removed in 1999.
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Post by Flytrap on Feb 2, 2007 19:03:55 GMT -5
I would just write a note to them for clarification. I have always found that they always replied to my queries. But then that was due to the fact I was importing plants from recognized nurseries.
As for trades between fellow hobbyists, I just send things in ordinary stationary envelopes ...without declaring anythiing...( like what all of us have been doing). I've sent and received small plants and cuttings this way. And this week, I am mailing out hibernaculums this way.
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Post by lloyd on Feb 2, 2007 20:50:31 GMT -5
I don't see anything wrong with sending seeds and plants in the mail without declaring anything. As long as you know you are not poaching or sending invasive species I can't see the problem. Some people would find this dishonest but it is harmless in my opinion.
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Post by insectivore on Feb 2, 2007 21:08:13 GMT -5
Hey guys! Here's my point of view on CITIES... CITIES is not really helping the endagered species THAT much... Sure it helps for Stopping wild collected plants that get sent and sold... But what about TC plants that are under CITIES... You can't send them... Why... The only thing people are doing is spredding them out so that more people have them and it discourages wild collecting... But the goverment dosen't seem to understand that... I don't know much about it but I don't think that in Canada there's a CITIES for shipping in between provinces or territories... Well atleast I hope not because that would be REALLY stupid... I think that if you guys have plants that are under CITIES to trade, sell, jut don't declare them it will save you alot of trouble... I was talking to a guy in Singapor and he was supposed to send me a plant of a newly dicovered Nep, Nepenthes Adrianii, never answer my last PM about the plant he was interested in, he hasen't posted lately either, probably is busy, anyway back to subject, he wasn't going to declare the plants because it would of been to much trouble... Anyway thats my point of view! Cya
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Post by martin on Feb 2, 2007 21:43:38 GMT -5
CITES does not control invasive species import/export. You CAN send a species that is on the CITES appendices, that is, if you have the propper papers with your shipment. It seems that only species on the CITES appendix I (there are 3 total) which trade is permitted only in exceptional circumstances. Im not sure exactly what that implies. All other Nepenthes are in CITES appendix II.
Taken from the CITES website: "CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) is an international agreement between governments. Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival."
From what I understand, the phytosanitary certificate that a country requires is to prevent bugs or other stuff that will harm/unbalance the ecosystem in which it is introduced. I think that is why many countries require importing plants bare-root (to avoid nasties trapped in the soil).
Who knows, maybe you are sending a plant in which some kind of bacteria/bug/fungus/whatever on it. Being in a new environnement which did not adapt to its presence, this thing might spread/invade/devastate living beings and the fragile ecosystem not prepared for its introduction!
I hope this helps. I would like to give better examples, I'm sure that Tom has something to say on that subject.
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Post by Syble on Feb 2, 2007 23:24:25 GMT -5
adrianiis is a new species? I have some seed coming from it... good to know hehe... Sorry O/T I know Sib
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Post by sdeering on Feb 2, 2007 23:44:34 GMT -5
Species of drosera
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Post by insectivore on Feb 2, 2007 23:47:37 GMT -5
Thanks Martin! Sib, Who is the person you are getting them from I can let you know if it the same person! Cya P.S. If you have a few to spare I would take some... He never got back to me on neither the seeds nor the plants...
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