|
Post by Apoplast on Dec 2, 2013 16:32:24 GMT -5
Hi all - I like to post picture of my healthy plants here to show off how cool my little pets are, but today I thought I would come to you all for some advice. I am not great with pygmy dews. Not sure why. But the latest batch I got it, were healthy, and happy little gemmae. They started to grow and looked good, until they started to look like this: I've lost entire species that I got in as they slowly wither away. It starts by browning at the apical shoot like this: And the progresses with yellowing of the leaves they have produces until the entire plant withers away and dies. I have just ordered a new and better TDS meter in hopes of figuring out if it is solutes, but I am not loosing just certain species, I'm loosing some individuals in a pot and not other of the same species as you can sort of see here. I don't even know if I would know what plants dying of high solute concentrations would look like, but the complete collapse of some individuals and thriving nature of others in the same pot makes me think it is a disease. The ones right next to the dead ones that are healthy, really look healthy. Has anyone seen anything like this before? For just over a year I have been battling some form of top kill that has been inflicting my subtropical rosette forming dews, which makes them look like this: They keep forming stunted leaves and the top dies. After successive re-sprouts, they eventually exhaust themselves and die. Again I am assuming this is some disease, but could it be something else? Are the two related? Thanks for looking and for your help!
|
|
|
Post by canuk1w1 on Dec 2, 2013 16:45:19 GMT -5
G'day. Your pics did not come through in the post - I lost 2 dews to something similar so very interested in this thread!
|
|
|
Post by Apoplast on Dec 2, 2013 21:07:21 GMT -5
Hi Canuk - Thanks for pointing that out. That's strange you can't see them. They come through for me. The image codes are the same as the ones I always use from Photobucket.
Is anyone else having the same problem as Canuk?
|
|
|
Post by lloyd on Dec 2, 2013 23:41:23 GMT -5
I'm not sure why your pygmies die. I find them really fairly easy except scorpioides which lately has been petering out. I notice your top dressing is some sort of round grain sand? I just use 2:1 sand peat mixture which seems pretty reliable. Some of my older sub-trop dews do a similar thing after a few years or so. I assumed it was old age.
|
|
|
Post by hal on Dec 3, 2013 0:22:48 GMT -5
Like Lloyd, I've found that South African dews will deteriorate after a few years. Even the bomb-proof capensis. I've tried drastic pruning, even cutting them down to the roots, but they grow back stunted. So you've presented 2 problems. What are the other 97?
|
|
|
Post by Apoplast on Dec 3, 2013 8:55:06 GMT -5
Hi Lloyd and Hal - Thanks for the feedback! The top dressing is the silica, sandblasting sand I use in my pots. Cleanest stuff I can get around here, though still not all that clean. Lloyd, are you thinking it might be too dry at the surface?
As far as the age issue goes, my Cape dews never seem to be bothered by whatever is going on, though my D. hamiltonii has the problem too. Plus, any cuttings I take start to grow and then quickly get the same problem and die as well. I can't even take root cuttings to keep a clone going. I know people have kept clones from single individuals of South African dews going much longer than I have have even been in the hobby. That's why I think I might have some sort of disease problem. Are either of you able to strike successful cuttings from a plant in this aged condition?
I might try doing root cuttings and cleaning the roots really well with a little alcohol and peroxide. If that allows the cuttings to thrive, I could have my answer. Thanks again for your input. It is greatly appreciated!
|
|
|
Post by shoggoths on Dec 3, 2013 9:38:56 GMT -5
Hello Apoplast, My hamiltonii is looking good in pure LFS and half the light my other drosera usually get. You could try it for yours. About your other problem, I'm currently experiencing problems with a few of my dews. They are sitting in the same water tray and have been potted with the same mix. From what I read, it seems to be humic acid problem ... You can read more on this here : www.growsundews.com/sundews/Sundew_Problems_Page-Drosera_help_recovery_and_care.html#Leaf_Deformation_from_Black_HumicIt cause some darkening of the crown. Can say if this is what happening to your gemmae. Can you remove some of the black stuff with a cotton ear cleaner ? The site say that it is only an esthetical problem but some of my plants seems to be dying of it.
|
|
|
Post by lloyd on Dec 3, 2013 12:19:39 GMT -5
I know they grow in sand naturally. Just that I don't top dress with it and my pygmies have done well without it.
|
|
|
Post by Apoplast on Dec 3, 2013 13:25:23 GMT -5
Hi Shogg - Merci pour votre réactions! I read that about humic acid on Aaron's site too. My pygmies are in new media that has all be rinsed, or acid washed. It doesn't really wipe off, though it does stain the tip of the swab yellow, which would be consistent for humic acid. I'm not entirely sure I agree with Aaron about humic acid as a problem regardless. Humic acid is always present in peat in high concentrations. Given that these plants are very adapted to peaty soils, it seems like they should tolerate fairly high himic acid concentrations. But, I don't have evidence either way. The reason I suspect either solutes is similar to the humic acid argument, but that as we keep adding water to trays, the evaporation will concentrate any dilute solutes, and the wicking action of the peaty soils is likely to concentrate these solutes most strongly at the soil surfaces. How often do people top water their plants to flush solutes? How often do you change your water in your trays entirely? I'm thinking about propagating some of my dews and then watering a subset with my tap water (very hard well water!) and photographing their decline. I think it would be instructive to have those types of time series photos available as a visual aid. Does anyone else think this would be worth it? I might also post my question about what is happening with my dews on CPUK or ICPS to see what others think. Hi Lloyd - True they do grow in some course, and fairly dry soil in habitat. But I get the feeling they don't do as well in those conditions in cultivation. I'm not sure I could get away with growing them in soils like I saw them where they live, like these little guys (excuse the poor depth of field on this shot). After the losses I suffered this summer, I definitely want to fix this situation soon. Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice!
|
|
|
Post by Apoplast on Dec 3, 2013 14:32:42 GMT -5
Hi Shogg - I forgot to thank you for the tip on growing hamiltonii. I do appreciate it. It's never really thrived for me. That one and slackii and two I have had trouble getting to bloom and I would very much like to try. Thanks for the LFS advice!
|
|
|
Post by canuk1w1 on Dec 4, 2013 12:33:55 GMT -5
Hi Canuk - Thanks for pointing that out. That's strange you can't see them. They come through for me. The image codes are the same as the ones I always use from Photobucket. Is anyone else having the same problem as Canuk? I'll check again from home. The firewall here may be blocking something...
|
|
|
Post by Apoplast on Dec 5, 2013 12:50:30 GMT -5
Hi all - As per usual OCPS is far more useful than other forums! I posted elsewhere to get as wide a spectrum of input as possible. Not useful.
Yesterday, I top watered all the dews with loads of RO water to try to flush any potential solutes through, and the placed them back in their trays with the new RO water. We'll see what happens. If they continue to decline, it's probably not high solute concentration that's killing them. But if they perk up, I am definitely doing a photo time course with control and treatment plants in RO and hard water so people have pictures of what high solute concentrations do to dews. I'll let you all know what happens.
|
|
|
Post by Apoplast on Dec 9, 2013 19:52:52 GMT -5
Good day everybody - I don't want to sound the all clear alarm too soon, but it's looking like solutes might have been the problem. There has been a general greening of the pygmy dews that were not too far gone. I'm starting to get hopeful. And pretty sure I am going to do some propagation so I can do the time comparison between RO and high solute water. Something goos has to come out of this, and if others can see what happens to help themselves diagnose a problem, not too bad.
|
|
|
Post by dvg on Dec 10, 2013 15:28:37 GMT -5
Hi Apoplast, Great to hear that you may have solved your pygmy sundew problem. You might have to resort back to that elaborate system of sand cleaning that you had shown us earlier. Hope they all recover well for you. dvg
|
|
|
Post by canuk1w1 on Dec 10, 2013 16:50:14 GMT -5
... You might have to resort back to that elaborate system of sand cleaning that you had shown us earlier. Hope they all recover well for you. dvg Wot I'm a religious follower of now! $10 for a litre of reagent grade Acetic acid, vs 4$ for 5% pickling vinegar from Loblaws? I still prefer reagent grade ;-)
|
|