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Post by zac on Jan 18, 2006 16:20:42 GMT -5
So what do you think? Who's it gonna be? Who do you want it to be? Anything you want to share about whpse gonna run/ruin our lives for the next 4 years.
I'll start. I think the conservatives will get in. I'm leaning towards the NDP but in all honesty I don't really like anyone in this election. I fear that if the conservatives make a majority we will lose Quebec to seperatism and thus fall into a "depression" economically. I also fear for the reprecussions of a Harper-Bush alliance on many issues.
Zac
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Post by Syble on Jan 18, 2006 18:41:57 GMT -5
Well my parents are split. But somethig we can all go with is that there isn't really a good choice. I also lean towards NDP, but what choices are there? Liberals haven't worked, lets face it! Sounds ok on paper, but that didn't work. Conservitives also sound fine on paper, but I don't think I like harper, he takes firm stances on many things, but changes them as public opinion changes. NDP sounds like a good option, but the last time they were in power things didn't work too well, not to say this would be the same, might do some good. Here's the problem for me at least, I've got key issues and not one of the party addresses all of them to my satisfaction. I come from a farming background, no politicians are doing anything to help farmers. No one seams to think it's a big problem, wonder what they'll think when more give it up, and food isn't so plentiful? Gun registry? They state it is to keep guns out of unlawful hands!?!? how many criminals are lawabiding to get guns properly and register and all!? what a giant waste of money! IMHO that money is much better spent on health care, schools and farmers. Thats just a couple that came to mind, I'm not gonna rant or anything, it's just my thoughts. Sib PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OPINIONS< RESPECT THEM.
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Post by hpulley on Jan 18, 2006 20:00:48 GMT -5
I think Harper will win though majority or minority I'm not sure.
Like you I don't love anyone this time around. The tories have run a good campaign, I'll give them that, but I don't like several of the things they stand for. Thus, from a strategic standpoint I'm going to continue to vote for the local representitive which I like, a liberal. I don't love Paul Martin but I think there is a better chance of getting what I want with the liberals in power. Selfishly I'd like the $1200/year child thing and other tax breaks of the conservatives but as I said, there are other things I don't like about them.
Vote for who you like. There is no wrong answer but please DO VOTE!
Harry
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Post by zac on Jan 18, 2006 23:11:48 GMT -5
I will respect your opinion but I believe that if you don't feel comfortable voting for anyone in particular than the last thing you should do is go out and mark a ballot for the wrong reasons. That's where mistakes are made. I think that is the main problem with "per riding" voting vs. proportional representation.
Vote for who you like. Don't vote for the wrong reasons and if you haven't taken the time to seriously think about your choice DON"T VOTE
Zac
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Post by bubblebrain00 on Jan 18, 2006 23:44:46 GMT -5
I personally dont like the politicians, but it seems that harper is mostly likely to win it anyways. But I love harper's idea of lowering the GST 5%. Thats GREAT! ;D We pay so much on stupid taxes.
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Post by zac on Jan 19, 2006 7:50:57 GMT -5
I think it may cause alot of problems with business' as they will have to rework alot of things around the change in tax. Just so were clear: The conservatives tax reduction will cause the average person to save between $200-$300 annually until the second reduction where that doubles. The Liberal platform suggests a tax return of $500-$600 every year which does not exist in the conservative platform. I'm not trying to take sides on this I don't like either plan really and I believe these change over time (like in 4 years).
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Post by mabudon on Jan 19, 2006 8:04:54 GMT -5
personally I have been kinda shocked at thsi particular campaign, easily the most "US kickin and screaming match" I have witnessed in my time... No "swift boating" or anything, but then I don't think Canada has as much of a love for the exploits of our military as the folks south of the border.... I too lean towards the NDP but locally there's a snag- the guy who ran NDP last election turned sides and became a lideral for "strategic" reasons, and the whole notion of strategic voting bugs me for some reason The main problem I have with the conservatives is the US/Harper connection (globally) and the possibility of still more wasted time discussing gay marriage... every time I hear it come up, all's I can think is asking opponents "how has your life been ruined since it came into law??" I mean, the minister across the street still smiles at me every time I see him, and I thought he was one of the folks it should have affected the most?? I dunno, it is just a pet peeve to watch so much important stuff be relegated to the back burner to "deal" with totaly non-issues... I don't trust the Green party just yet, seeing as they run in so many countries and I really don't understand how that could work the way it is set up (other examples don't seem to equate, such as the Canadian Communist parties which are ostensibly aligned with other communist groups but not incorporated like a multinational business to my understanding) I hope it turns out fo the best for all of us, and I WILL vote to be sure... hopefully neither the liberals nor the conservatives can function without some kind of strong balance (tho another 18 month minority seems ridiculous, I think that's how it's gonna shake down) And on a final note, I think the conservative party should split back up, and get back to actual traditional conservatism and NOT the more ideologically right-wing party it has become since the merger... Okay, that's it sorry for the essay
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Post by ellen687 on Jan 20, 2006 16:34:08 GMT -5
IMHO, it's long due to change law to a more contemporary system of voting - not through elected representatives, who can't be held accountable for fulfilling election campaign promises and implementing electors' requests, but direct voting - each eligible voter votes on every specific issue - and hired publicly accountable employees implementing these decisions. No long term all-powerful bureaucracy, empowered for decision-making, like raise salaries for themselves and create sub-law changes for preserving existense of the organizations independently from real-life results of their work - work they were created for initially. To summarize - like online use of the library, or bank, or kiosk for changing address in the documents in the shopping mall... Demos decides and employees are accountable to demos. (Wishes, wishes, wishes...
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Post by Syble on Jan 20, 2006 21:07:02 GMT -5
ellen, although I agree with you in principle, it likely wouldn't work aswell on paper. People in general (not in reference to anyone) are selfesh, kinda like the saying "not in my backyard" and tend to be short sighted about issues not directly effecting them. For example, cities house the vast majority of people, what dose a city person care about the issues directly affecting farmers, when asked what someone though about the border issues and canadian beef, they replied, hey works out well for me I'm getting steak cheep! I see that kinda thing all the time here where we(a rural township) were swallowed up by a neighbouring town, at meetings the city people always out weigh the county people, which for us has resulted in the local quarry getting a side road to close so they can expand. Dosen't sound like that big of a deal, might sound alright even.... quarry company gives the town a chunk of waterfront property plus like $23,000 in trade for this side road(no houses gravel road). Except it is a huge inconvienience for the people living here who use that road all the time. my neighbour live on that road just before the section their closeing, just bought a huge feild not long ago about a block down that road, seamed like an awsome deal, short drive in a slow combine, now will have to drive it around the block and down a busy 2 lane highway. not to mention the people who now get to deal with the quarry blasting that much closer to their houses. But there is maybe 200 people directly there, and a couple 1000 in the city, so we were out voted. just an example....but I could see that being common problem, west coasters not thinking about how something would affect east coasters(like a fishing issue).
It seams to me now after talking with alot of people, NDP is the favoured party for the youth 30 and under, aswell as people more concerened about social issues (health care and education, ect), Conservative is more favoured by the remaining farmers and middle class as well as people out there looking for tax cuts. And although I have seen signs for the liberals, I have yet to talk to someone who wants to vote for them, so I don't know what to say about them! Although I did hear that people voted liberal last election for the reason that they figured they were gonna win anyways (which I frown on!). If you plan to waste a vote like that, you might as well just throw it in the trash, instead of supporting someone you don't believe in!
My additonal 2 cents Sib (and yes I think I will vote NDP weather or not they are likely to win my riding!)
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Post by zac on Jan 22, 2006 21:24:58 GMT -5
Getting close now. Any predictions.
Mine: Conservative Minority increased NDP presence Bloc will be the same but madder Should have some interesting reprecussions be prepared to live through alot of Canadian history
Zac
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Post by brian on Jan 23, 2006 18:15:29 GMT -5
Here are my (unsolicited) predictions for the aftermath: Steven Harper majority: Martin resigns by the spring. Harper’s party will implode with social libertarians, social conservatives, neo-cons, red tories, evangelicals and Quebecois marching into his office demanding their agendas be addressed or they walk. The party, thus splintered like under Mulroney, will remain in power 3 to 4 years followed by 10 years of liberal government under a new leader. Steven Harper minority: He will successfully keep the duct tape on everyone although Ralph Klein may need additional restraint. He will find common ground with the NDP in the spring and Martin calls a leadership convention for the summer. In the fall Harper makes demands on Layton, Layton responds in kind and thereby falls into Harper’s trap. The fall election sees Harper attack the NDP for being unrealistic and asking for a majority mandate to properly govern after so many minorities. Conservatives rule for 10 years. Paul Martin minority: See election 2004 (back to square one). Harper only stays if he makes inroads in Quebec. Otherwise McKay pulls out the knives. Paul Martin majority: Harper resigns. Also pigs fly and hell freezes over. Jack Layton minority: A Romanian dictator once used the phrase “when beech trees bear fruit and reeds bear flowers” to describe the chances of freedom in his country. Actually though he was shot in the back by the military the same year.. Jack Layton majority: Nepenthes will overwinter in my Bancroft bog garden… And finally: Green majority: damn, no more global warming, back to s. purpurae and d. rotundifolia in Bancroft. Hope y’all voted. Its 6:15, there’s still time left. Brian
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Post by mabudon on Jan 23, 2006 18:30:20 GMT -5
That's a pretty fair assesment Brian, good one, some Neps would look real nice in there, though if it gets warm enough, every body of water will be so overgrown with D.capensis that you may not have space for your bog anymore! Hard to know where this one's headed at this time...... I voted, though, here's hoping we get some kind of positive out of this exercise....
I'll no doubt return to this thread tomorrow...
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Post by zac on Jan 23, 2006 20:41:03 GMT -5
I'll definately be here tomorrow and by tomorrow I may mean 1:00a.m. That was a great read Brian
Zac
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Post by zac on Jan 24, 2006 7:40:13 GMT -5
Two Words: Strategic Voting
I'll talk more l8er
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Post by mabudon on Jan 26, 2006 13:03:35 GMT -5
well, the first part of the "fallout" has begun, with Harper re-affirming his pledge to arm border guards... I found it odd, since in the local candidates debates, the conservative candidates all fell in with the other parties and said that it would make MUCH better sense to try to use the RCMP to beef up the security at the border (which makes a lot of sense to me as well, given that our border "guards" aren't even really "guards" by the common standard as far as I know, they're customs and immigration agents) I am of the opinion that "enforcement" should be kept in the hands of Enforcers, not the observers, and that arming "border guards" could be the beginning of a VERY slippery slope... what's next, mall security guards asking to be armed (as they are in the US, I swear I saw a guy with a machine gun guarding a pharmacy several years ago in downtown Buffalo) I know this isn't exactly DIRECTLY election-related, but I figure if we're gonna have an evolving discouse, we might as well keep the whole politics thing in one thread as an ongoing discussion rather than have tons of topics about different facets of the same thing Anyone else with any post election commentary ?? As for the election itself, it could have been FAR worse for those of us who have problems with the right-wing agenda of the merged Conservative party, and the way I see it, if Harper even seriously considers putting any sort of "faith based initiatives" on the table, the other 3 parties will stand united against it, since one of the few things that put the Conservatives on one side and all the others on the opposite would be any party trying to install puritanical and frankly ridiculously out-of-date morality in Law I am a little worried about our country bending over backwards to "repair" the "damaged relations" we have with the US, I personally find that whole concept insulting, whenever it comes up my eyes roll back into my skull... what the heck have we done to damage relations?? not signing on to stuff that breaks TONS of international treaties?? If that's the case, colour me a villain, cos I am not going to try to apologize for a mistake that I DIDN'T MAKE when someone else asked me to... Sheesh, sorry, got a bit fired up towards that last bit
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