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Post by dToad on Jan 28, 2012 6:12:05 GMT -5
I've been thinking about how to prevent this. These are my initial thoughts on how to do it.
An airflow control valve, coupled with with an air-conditioning thermostat seems to be required. Hydronic (Hot Water Baseboard / in-floor) heating systems generally use low voltage synchronous motors to control water flow. These same motors could be used to make an air-flow control valve, if one does not exist. The complete valve control head is available from hardware stores for about $35. It includes gearing to rotate the valve 90° and a return spring. A heating system 24-28V transformer is needed for the motor.
One of the dryer or bathroom/kitchen air vents can be easily modified to accept one of these valve heads. The microswitches within the valvehead can be used to control a computer style muffin fan if desired.
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Post by Apoplast on Jan 28, 2012 17:06:42 GMT -5
Hi d'Toad - That sounds like a lot of building. I agree that control over the airflow is key, but I think all the necessary components are available with much less effort and for not much money. I recently set up something that I think meets your requirements. You can check it out at: ocps.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=inside&action=display&thread=4748The upgrade I am talking about is at the bottom of page 1.
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Post by dToad on Jan 28, 2012 18:17:21 GMT -5
Yes, there's a bit of fiddling around to get it operational.
I saw your post earlier, and thought that there was some room for improvement. I'm still not sure how I'll achieve cooling, as some summer nights are pretty warm. We can always go for a cheap used air conditioner. They start at $40 on Kijiji.
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Post by Apoplast on Jan 28, 2012 18:59:56 GMT -5
You are correct sir. I do not have cooling in place. I guess I never think about that with so many of my plants being summer dormant.
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Post by vraev on Jan 28, 2012 20:40:50 GMT -5
I'll post up some of my current ideas to improve my setup when I go home. I drew out a plan of what I want to do and already got the hygrotherm. I just need to get vent tubes and the panels to fabricate the inner mechanism of air directing (lol...not a real term I think).
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Post by vraev on Jan 29, 2012 2:43:34 GMT -5
Okay here is my current setup... As you can see, very simple...yet effective. Although...also dangerous...as I have found out. No control on temps...no control on humidifier..just turned on every night. Often have to refill the next day. I want to modify it to automate it a bit more with more control. Bascially.... 1) Graft an inline fan into that tubing - Controlled by zoo med thermometer 2) Merge a duct from humidifier to the main duct tubing - controlled by zoo med hygrometer 3) Vent in air from top rather than side...allowing me to close side 4) Add a gap between the panel and the window --- allowing me to close window by various degrees in winter What do you guys think? I have had these modifications in mind before...but didn't want to bother as what I was doing was working... well...not anymore.
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Post by Kase on Jan 29, 2012 11:38:49 GMT -5
What if you put two fans in the air duct? One for pulling the air in when cooling is needed and the other to keep the cold air from entering when it's cool enough... Also maybe consider getting a cool most humidifier with a larger resivoir? I found one on kijiji with a 3 gallon resivoir for $20 and just made a adapter plate to plumb it into my tank.
I have similar setup less the duct work as my tank is pretty much in the window and found night lows where too low for comfort (3C), so I changed my light cycle to be on at night keeping my day time highs around 18C and during the day it doesn't drop much bellow 9C. I think it has a lot too do with how they heat my apartment building the middle of the day I have to have my widows open and around sunset the has to close the windows. It's workin for now but like you I need to put in some safe guards
Cheers Roger
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Post by lloyd on Jan 29, 2012 22:29:30 GMT -5
I checked the electrical rates in Toronto and the prices are 1/3 at night compared to the day prices. I set my timers to turn on my lights on for the lowest priced electricity.
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Post by Apoplast on Jan 30, 2012 10:30:41 GMT -5
Hi Vraev - I can see the control issues you are having there. I too am a proponent of using the simplest system (despite my conflicting natural tendency to overdo things - I've always said; anything that's worth doing is worth overdoing). But I have to say, having a more controlled ventilation system has allowed me to relax a little bit about my plants, and now I don't have to obsessively check the weather every night.
Kase's idea of a dual fan system is interesting and brings up a good point that by adding an in-line fan to the tube you can increase the rate of airflow, but you aren't going to reduce it from your current setup. My suggestion would be to find a dryer end cap that will reduce the flow drastically when the fan is off. This will prevent too much cold air from entering and you won't have to wire another fan. Regardless of what you choose to use, after your freezing event, you need to have a measure in place to reduce the airflow when necessary.
Hi Lloyd - That's the second time I've seen you mention the cost saving of having lights on a reverse cycle. I'll have to check what my local rate difference is. With the weather so warm this year here, I'm not sure I can get the "night time" temperature drop I need if I do a reverse cycle, but it's a very good idea.
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Post by dToad on Jan 30, 2012 17:26:50 GMT -5
Time of Day metering is often made available by electric companies to shift some of the load to off-peak hrs. Power used at off-peak hrs is relatively cheap at half price or less, and power consumed during peak hrs is usally charged at a premium price. It's often chosen by folks with ETS (Electro-Thermal-Storage) heating systems.
Another good option is 'Net-Metering' for those with solar panels or wind generators. The grid acts as your unlimited capacity battery, and supplements your generation capability if required.
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Post by vraev on Jan 31, 2012 2:24:56 GMT -5
I checked the electrical rates in Toronto and the prices are 1/3 at night compared to the day prices. I set my timers to turn on my lights on for the lowest priced electricity. Wow!! Did it really make such a difference? I knew that off peak hours is lower, but didn't bother with it as it is annoying to have the light on when I am sleeping in my apt. Now with 8 bulb fixture, it might be worth considering. Also...in summer, there is a dilemma....I still would need AC in morning (lights off) to keep temps down and that would offset the savings (probably?). What if you put two fans in the air duct? One for pulling the air in when cooling is needed and the other to keep the cold air from entering when it's cool enough... Also maybe consider getting a cool most humidifier with a larger resivoir? I found one on kijiji with a 3 gallon resivoir for $20 and just made a adapter plate to plumb it into my tank. I have similar setup less the duct work as my tank is pretty much in the window and found night lows where too low for comfort (3C), so I changed my light cycle to be on at night keeping my day time highs around 18C and during the day it doesn't drop much bellow 9C. I think it has a lot too do with how they heat my apartment building the middle of the day I have to have my widows open and around sunset the has to close the windows. It's workin for now but like you I need to put in some safe guards Cheers Roger Yeah Roger. I was actually concerned about the venting when temps are too cold. Thats why I was planning on increasing the gap between the panel to which the pipes connect to and the window...allowing me to close it. That way...on coldest days, I can prevent freezing air. If I am going away, I would close window and just suck in air from the window surface..shuld be cold enough..but not too cold to freeze plants.
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Post by lloyd on Jan 31, 2012 11:33:31 GMT -5
In the winter, all the energy from the lights is "used" to heat your place. So if you use 1/3 price electricity at off-peak hours you are saving money by having your lights on. Of course if you have to vent cold air from outside or use a cooler/fans to offset the heat produced from the lights, that's a different story. Maybe vent the heat to another area of the house?
In the summer the opposite is true. I'm going to cut the lights-on hours in our summer to cut A/C costs and simulate a seasonal cycle (reversed). Anyway, our basement is so cold we have to leave the gas-fireplace on really low or it's too cold to use the basement.
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Post by dToad on Jan 31, 2012 18:19:20 GMT -5
YES! Finally I meet someone that sees the light :-)
I've been saying for years that lights have a near negligable effect on the energy used in a Canadian home. I even did the calculations to prove it. Very few accept this, but instead subscribe to the persistent propaganda from the southern environmentalist / light bulb manufacturer sectors.
Just because a practice saves energy in southern California / Florida does not mean that it will in our northern climes.
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Post by doug on Feb 1, 2012 10:15:37 GMT -5
I heat with Natural gas so the only cost to me to run any electrical appliance in the house, is the difference in cost of electrical energy and the cost on natural gas energy.
This is of course only applicable when you are heating the house. And now with time of use billing it might even be saving money at night!! Doug B.E.Sc. P.Eng. (electrical)
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Post by dToad on Feb 1, 2012 15:00:00 GMT -5
You really need to read the fine print, and know your usage patterns to determine whether or not Time of Day Billing will save you money. I know folks that actually pay more with this money saving scheme. The current rates in NS are:
Winter (December to February) * 07:00 am to 12:00 pm 16.435¢/kW.h 12:00 pm to 04:00 pm 12.638¢/kW.h 04:00 pm to 11:00 pm 16.435¢/kW.h 11:00 pm to 07:00 am 6.468¢/kW.h
Non-Winter (March to November) * 07:00 am to 11:00 pm 12.638¢/kW.h 11:00 pm to 07:00 am 6.468¢/kW.h
The normal domestic tariff is 12.638¢ /KWh
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