|
Post by vraev on Feb 16, 2009 19:33:02 GMT -5
Hey guys,
I hope none of you guys have to face this...but I thought my story might give you an important lesson:
Always inspect your plants when you get them in trades or nursaries.
As of now...4 of my neps have been dumped away due to scale. The 4 species are:
N.talangensis N.mira N.alata N.fusca sarawak
The scale has also been spotted on other priceless plants for me: A 10 inch diamater N.lowii, N.hamata, N.veitchii and even my highland condition adapted 1.5 foot diameter N.bicalcarata.
Its ironical that things can turn on a dime. Just a couple of months ago...my plants were in their peak with fantastic growth, pitchers on every leaf and just beauty of lush growth. This is the first time in my 2 yrs in CP cultivation that I have ever had a pest on my plants and it is truly putting my motivation to the test. I have tried using orthonex but discarded it due to its toxicity and stench that could actually cause health defects in myself. I am currently resorting to the old school method of manual hand removal of scale from the plants...but for the most part...if I spot it with scale...I am considering discarding the whole plant.
As a result, I have for the most part lost interest in obtaining new plants and just from now, WAITING and WATCHING to see how the current ones come along. The once thriving N.rajah has also suddenly collapsed leaving me dumbfounded in how things can suddenly change.
In essence....just a warning for everyone: Watch your plants regularly and carefully. Practice clean hygiene and FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE: DO NOT EVER POT 2-4 plants in one pot. Its a mistake I live to regret.
Good luck in your cultivation friends...... I hope for me that atleast the passing of these 4 plants leaves the handful of neps I have left to survive and persist.
V
|
|
|
Post by hal on Feb 16, 2009 19:54:31 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about this, vraev.
Keep us posted and for heaven's sake don't give up! Have you tried an oil treatment? That's worked for me on some houseplants in the past, as well as insecticidal soap mixed with a bit of rubbing alcohol to improve penetration.
|
|
|
Post by tael on Feb 16, 2009 20:04:56 GMT -5
Yikes, that's too bad vraev...
|
|
|
Post by tom on Feb 16, 2009 21:04:26 GMT -5
scales are indeed persistant and are tenacious on Nepenthes. Luckily, they dont affect a lot of others CP (outside Sarracenia, i dont think i've seen some elsewhere...).
You can 'rescue' your plants by wiping your leaves with rubbing alcohol and then make a spray schedule with neem oil, which work perfectly in my case against scales, aphids, thrips... it makes wonders!
|
|
|
Post by markym4rk on Feb 16, 2009 22:03:16 GMT -5
where do u get this neem oil?
|
|
|
Post by hal on Feb 16, 2009 22:12:39 GMT -5
You can get neem oil at any good nursery
|
|
|
Post by lloyd on Feb 16, 2009 22:12:46 GMT -5
Hi Vraev, I know how you feel. I've had numerous episodes of scale and I've always managed to get rid of it even last time in a crowded nep terrarium. I pm'ed you my ideas.
For the group:
Never insecticidal soap, it will shock the leaves and cause massive dieoff.
Alcohol is good at killing and removing scales and the larvae and eggs. It can also dehydrate the more delicate leaves of neps and other CP's. For example, ampullaria leaves are sort of leathery and didn't mind the alcohol.
I overzealously "alcoholed" my neps for scale, washing all the leaf surfaces with 99% ethanol. It really did a number on the thin leaved neps with a lot of die back and a stenophylla died from the alcohol treatment.
Then I sprayed with Al Bickell's Neem recipe (on the site somewhere, here.) Some of the worst infested plants, I repotted after cleaning the roots and spraying some of the Neem mixture in the soil.
Eventually complete recovery and no more scale, 1 plant died.
I've cured VFT's, utrics, dews, cephs, orchids and neps from scale, so it is possible. As Vraev says, monthly checks with a magnifying glass and treat ASAP.
Good luck, Vraev and don't give up.
|
|
|
Post by vraev on Feb 17, 2009 4:27:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the concern guys. It just is sooo depressing that something which has become a part of my life is being invaded and destroyed by pests from a couple of plants....namely the alata elongata and fusca. Don't fear btw....these weren't from any of our local Canadian nursaries. They came from an outdoor nepenthes grower who sent them as gifts from Hawaii. For me .... It's a critical lesson which I will never forget if I still stick to Cp and especially nep cultivation: never ever again mix new plants from other growers with the core collection... Especially if those were gorwn outdoors. I guess it's also a lesson that there is a purpose for phytosanitary laws and it's for our own benefit. This is one critical lesson that supercedes everything else and one which I will never attempt to disregard. In the wake of this disaster....if there is something still left for me in nepenthes, my future plants shall always be strictly from approved, checked and clean sources: namely sources which can legally export clean plants like wistuba, BE and EP. So guys.....a piece of advice...... Plants from friends overseas can be sent and obtained without any documentation...but it is at our own peril. Hence....do ensure whom u get your plants from is a clean source. Thanks for the tip Lloyd. I did buy some neem oil a yr ago from Sheridan nursaries. I wouldn't assume it had an expiry date.....would it? I will try to look for the neem recipe. My worst fears are true. The bicalcarata is heavily infested as well. I just can't get myself to chuck it away. It has always kept me happy. Since the day flytrap sold it to me.....it has always thrived in whatever conditions I threw at it and is among the crown jewels of my cultivation experience. I wiped it's leaves which showed some scale with 99% isopropyl alcohol. I am expecting it to go black on me at anytime.
It was a good run in this hobby for me. Let's see if I can persist.
|
|
|
Post by tom on Feb 17, 2009 7:36:28 GMT -5
as for 'clean source' keep in mind that no nursery or even moderate to large collector cannot garantee a pest-free plants, even if they are full of good will. They can control populations, but most likely a total eradication is impossible for large collection, especially if they are using biopesticide, prevention, etc instead of deadly poisons.
|
|
|
Post by vraev on Feb 17, 2009 8:56:50 GMT -5
Well....I personally don't know about first hand obtaining a wistuba plant directly from the man himself....but I would assume that those plants are pest free for the most part. THis actually is one of the reasons I think they are weaker.....they are too clean and cannot face the harsh new conditions in a pot with regular media. I know I recall reading about pests at BE and that they do regular treatments....but I presume that with a mainstream nursery such as themselves, their phyto treatments on the plants from production batches are enough to give the end user a clean product. But hey....one can never know...a mainstream nursery with 99 clean plants in a shipment can have one single infected plant which was overlooked by the inspector since the rest of the 99 were clean. I understand what u mean....but talking in terms of probability: Most nepenthes nursaries have treatments for pests and they do face the pests we face. Another one of the friends I know from another forum called up his local CP supplier who owns a nepenthes nursery to get me a recommended treatment. He apparently uses a bayer's pesticide called merit and its enough to keep things clean. I have looked into it...I have considered getting some of those other chemicals....but my experience with orthenex was very very bad. The active ingredient in it is acephate which is a suspected carcinogen. Since I live in an apartment, I have to store the pesticide in a closet or something...but the pesticide stinks even through 3 layers of plastic bags. In a harsh decision, I discarded the entire bottle after just one usage. I know I can eradicate scale with it....but I thought it wasn't worth doing it at a price of causing health defects in myself over the course of weeks for the multiple orthenex treatments. I guess I was being a bit too paranoid about it....but I think its better to be safe than sorry in regards to health. Hence for the most part, I decided that whatever battle I undertake against scale will be the painful route of using alcohol dipped Q-tips to remove all the scale i can find. I guess it also makes one more paranoid than needed as I noticed I am sometimes even doubtful if it is scale or just dust. Adult scale looks very very definite. THere is no mistaking it at all. Its the young generation that is hard to spot. The crawlers look like white dust particles on the plant and immature females look like hollow shells on the leaf. A dreaded sight!!!
|
|
|
Post by lloyd on Feb 17, 2009 9:56:59 GMT -5
I agree with systemic insecticides in a living area. Neem is safe, you can eat it, if you don't mind garlic-peanut breath. I've kept my neem (pure oil, like margerine in the fridge) for years and it still seems to be fine. Also the smell, to me, is fairly minor and "weird-foody" rather than nauseating chemical. The bottle doesn't smell in the fridge. I keep the recipe in a spray bottle in a zip-lock in the fridge and it doesn't smell at all.
Here's Al Bickell's recipe:
1 litre water 2-3 cc Neem oil few drops of Eucalyptus oil (for red-spider mite) 1 tbsp light mineral oil 5-6 drops dishwater detergent
Shake vigorously to suspend oils. Keep in fridge to keep fresh. Must be room temperature to keep Neem oil liquid. For scale use double the Neem concentration.
In my experience the normal strength is fine on Mexican pings and larger Sarracenia. The higher strength is toxic to VFT's and small Sarracenia but they do bounce back. I have never tried it on utrics. Sundews do not like it and I would be careful trying it on them.
|
|
|
Post by dvg on Feb 17, 2009 10:59:27 GMT -5
Vraev, I do wish you luck in your combat with your worthy new opponent, scale. If you persist, you will prevail here. Knowing how much your plants mean to you, tells me you will be successful . With you gaining more ammo for your arsenal, because of this experience.
Markym4rk, you can get Neem oil at All Season's in Edmonton, southside just off Whyte.
Lloyd thanks for posting up Al Bickell's bug remedy. I'm always interested in non-toxic pest control options.
|
|
|
Post by lloyd on Feb 17, 2009 11:31:52 GMT -5
I have never had to use anything besides alcohol and the Neem recipe. (except for insecticidal soap on my non-CP's)
|
|
|
Post by prmills on Feb 17, 2009 11:50:33 GMT -5
Sorry to hear this Vraev... truely disheartening. Keep at it and you'll make it through. I'm sure in the long run you'll be glad you did! Your love and knowledge of these great plants are much appreciated on this board, not to mention your friendship too! You can do it!
|
|
|
Post by tom on Feb 17, 2009 12:13:53 GMT -5
imported plants are a different matters, since they must be free of pest to go through custom lines and inspections. And TC material is pest free (not speaking of virus here) while in vitro, which help a lot when ou start with healthy material. I meant more about 'in' country nursery, local trade, illegal import, etc. Even a short seyjourn (?) outdoor on a balcony can bring in some pests... But then i try to remember this is a hobby, not a reason to die of a heart attack at 30
|
|