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Post by daniello on Aug 26, 2007 11:16:39 GMT -5
lloyd: thanks for linking to that for me. i wonder how it works without batteries/power source? i will have to look for one. as for aquarium stores, i will check there, but i have a feeling that any good quality sand from those kind of places is going to be just as pricey...
barvinok: we don't have a lordco here. i have never heard of it, haha. i have been trying all the hardware stores (like canadian tire, home depot, etc) but maybe i should try hitting up the local automotive stores too.
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Post by mabudon on Aug 26, 2007 12:15:59 GMT -5
Yes, sand-blasting silica sand is perfect for CPs. I think there's a lot of aquarium sand that would be fine but the price on that stuff is kind of silly
There's also an interesting development in the recycling industry that might help us all out in the near future- a local plant is being geared up to make some types of abrasives (either sand blasting grit and/or sandpaper grit) from broken glass that can't be re-used- it makes it into little not-sharp "nuggets". If this becomes a standard, a bag of that stuff shouldn't be too expensive and I think it'd be a pretty good thing to add to growing media. I will post more on this when/if I hear anything else!!
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Post by lloyd on Aug 26, 2007 14:11:27 GMT -5
My old aquarium place was pretty cheap, a 1 pound bag only cost a dollar or so. I know that's expensive by weight but unless you have a bog you're not going to need much. Also I recycle my sand so it lasts.
If anybody finds a coarse silica sand in Toronto, let me know. Maybe I'll check an autobody shop nearby.
The moisture meters don't need batteries and are very simple, cheap and easy to use in the way I suggested.
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Post by barvinok on Aug 26, 2007 23:07:25 GMT -5
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Post by daniello on Nov 1, 2007 20:04:51 GMT -5
soo, here's an interesting observation resulting from this experiment... all of the capensis seedlings planted in sand mixtures died, which was kind of a given, seeing as i didn't really rinse the playsand very well. BUUUT... the seedlings that were planted in mixtures containing perlite also ended up dying off (slower than the sand mixtures, but definitely dead). the only seedlings that ended up making it through the experiment were the ones planted in pure peat and pure LFS (and they are super healthy looking, growing like the weeds they are). what does this mean??? is there something wrong with the perlite i've been using? maybe that's the reason my tokaiensis/spatulatas took so long to recover and re-dew after flowering?
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Post by Flytrap on Nov 1, 2007 20:40:09 GMT -5
Thanks Daniello - very astute and important observations... I think both sand and perlite don't hold moisture very well. And thus, both can, very easily dry out. Perhaps if the seeds were sowed in pure sand that contained water continuously (flooded over), the seeds may have made it. One of the things about sand and perlite is that even if you had the whole media sitting in water, the very top surface can still be easily dried up...yet, a cm below the top surface, it'd be sopping wet. Dan in Vancouver, grows all his Neps in pure perlite...and the neps grow extremely well and robust for him. As it is important that these plants get good access to root aeration, and a bit of media dryness at infrequent intervals.
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Post by daniello on Nov 1, 2007 22:09:51 GMT -5
but lots of people use 1:1 or 2:1 peat/sand or peat/perlite mixtures for their cps, don't they? isn't the standard all-purpose cp mix peat/sand? and i was sure that some people used some perlite in their mixes as well. it's not like i planted them in a pot of perlite with nothing else. my other cps are all in either 1:1 or 2:1 peat/perlite and they are okay (except for the slow recovery time after flowering/transplanting). should i just stick to 100% peat? i thought it was better to add *some* peat or sand for better aeration/drainage?
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Post by lloyd on Nov 1, 2007 22:34:09 GMT -5
I use sand/peat all the time. I wash all my sand/gravel in tap water and then rain or distilled water until the rinse water is close to pure water.
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Post by daniello on Nov 2, 2007 0:20:58 GMT -5
yeah i know, and i probably should have just listened to you in the first place about getting one a moisture meter and properly rinsing the sand instead of just using perlite. i honestly thought that using perlite instead of sand wouldn't make that much of a difference, and it was easier than searching all over town for the "right" sand or looking for a moisture meter and then rinsing 1000 times. thanks for patiently repeating it for me till i finally learned from my mistakes
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Post by Flytrap on Nov 2, 2007 0:41:13 GMT -5
the peat moss retains the moisture ...and the sand and/or perlite helps with aeration (getting air pockets). It's important to have a bit of both: moisture and air, as that's where all the root action occurs. The moisture is maintained by any material that can hold it - peat, cotton, mineral wool, wood chip, fern root fibre ...essentially, anything that is "absorbent". Plain old garden soil is also "absorbent", but it contains far too many salts and other rich solutes that can hurt the plant.
I will be trying out some of that coco fibre, but only the coco fibre (I think it's also called noir) that has not been collected from salty lagoons or from seashore locations (apparently you can check out the coco fibre source).
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Post by brian on Nov 2, 2007 5:23:18 GMT -5
I know I'm comparing apples to oranges here but an outdoor cactus supplier recommended sharp agricultural sand for my plants. Couldn't find it and used play sand instead with mixed results. Last year I found silica sand in St. Catharines and used some on the cacti and they just took off. So the plants can tell the difference. The moisture meter doesn't need batteries because the probe has two different metals. In the presence of moisture one corrodes the other producing current, kind of like potato clocks. When the one metal finally corrodes away then it won't work anymore, so the metal acts like a "battery".
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Post by lloyd on Nov 2, 2007 12:00:02 GMT -5
daniello:
I hope I wasn't repeating myself too much! I use perlite for sarr's mainly and for one nep. I'm not crazy about it but I know some people use it with good results. I find the inorganic stuff like sand & gravel only need one good rinse in tap water and then one or two in rain water.
Flytrap:
Don't believe the ads about "salt-free" coco-husk fibre. It's all full of salt. I almost killed two orchids with it! I find it takes 7 24 hour soaks with tap water and then 2-3 more day-long soaks with rain water to get it down to acceptable solute levels. I'm going to look around for a TDS meter to really check it out.
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Post by daniello on Nov 2, 2007 20:52:11 GMT -5
brian: hey, thanks for explaining how those moisture meter things work. i'm always curious about stuff like that. lloyd: no, i'm very grateful for all your advice and patience. thanks for taking the time to reply to all my silly questions. so, i went out and bought a moisture meter today, and i'm not sure i'm using it right. i tried it on my tap water, and the reading was about 6-7, whereas the distilled water i tried it on was about 1.5. does that make sense? if i want to test my sand for dissolved salts, first i soak the sand in distilled water, and then do i test the water the sand was soaked in, or the actual sand itself? if my distilled water reading is 1.5, does that mean my meter is faulty or cheap, or is it okay to use that as a "base" and aim to get my sand reading 1.5 or less? also, i convinced a friend to take me shopping at the sandblasting store for cheap silica sand we are going tomorrow. it is exciting!
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Post by Flytrap on Nov 3, 2007 2:13:29 GMT -5
Flytrap: Don't believe the ads about "salt-free" coco-husk fibre. It's all full of salt. I almost killed two orchids with it! I find it takes 7 24 hour soaks with tap water and then 2-3 more day-long soaks with rain water to get it down to acceptable solute levels. I'm going to look around for a TDS meter to really check it out. Yes ... you're right. Can't really trust labels... especially after that TV news doc about "Product of Canada"
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Post by lloyd on Nov 3, 2007 12:17:01 GMT -5
Daniello:
Your meter is different than mine. Toronto tap water shows about 5-6 on mine and distilled water zero. I wash the sand with tap water first. When the wash water is the same reading as tap water, I start washing with distilled or rain water (cheaper). When the wash water reads the same as distilled water or significantly less than tap water, say 2 on your meter the sand should be fine.
Note as Sticky says the temperature of the water will affect the moisture meter reading. Also the depth you stick it in to the water also changes the reading. Warmer water and deeper gives higher reading. So you have to standardize it a bit.
I just ordered a TDS meter from eBay about $20 with shipping. I'll post when I get it and start playing.
BTW, If you add vinegar to a small amount of sand and it bubbles it means it's contaminated with lime (not good).
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