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Post by lloyd on Mar 16, 2007 12:53:23 GMT -5
Vinegar + Calcium carbonate -> CO2. So if something bubbles there is Calcium carbonate in it which is a cause of water hardness. The vinegar test won't check for other chemicals such as common table salt which is pretty toxic to plants.
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Post by mabudon on Mar 16, 2007 14:55:03 GMT -5
Thanks Lloyd, THAT was what I wasn't too sure on, I knew it showed some possible contaminants, but as in the case Martin posted it would have given a "false positive", good to know!!
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Post by lloyd on Mar 16, 2007 16:32:18 GMT -5
mabudon: Do you mean "false negative"? I presume you mean Martin's comment about salt in the sand.
I find it hard to believe that ANY amount of salt in a CP medium wouldn't be immediately fatal. I almost lost two orchids by using coconut husk chips from an "Orchid Shop". The salesperson told me it was washed and it could be used as is. It was only after the orchids were failing that Jocelyn Bertrand (disappeared owner of Beaver Orchids) told me they wash it in SALT water!
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Post by mabudon on Mar 16, 2007 16:44:28 GMT -5
Okay, NOw I am officially confused- I meant that if he used it and it bubbled, it would have made it seem like he could be "positive" the sand was safe- which, I suppose, would in fact be a false result IF reaction was to be considered "positive"- there's a reason I'm not a scientist, and I think this illustrates it clearly... so YES I meant, properly "false negative" as in "negative for any harmful elements"- sorry to confuse everyone else with my own confusion Back on topic- that Martin could have been so lucky astounds me too- not saying I don't believe it, but something somewhere must have been lined up REALLY well to avoid catastrophe in that instance, he really dodged a salty bullet
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Post by lloyd on Mar 16, 2007 17:08:32 GMT -5
Interesting. You were approaching it from a growers' point of view so positive meant "good for the plants". I was thinking as a chemist so positive meant "something happening I could observe". That's why your plants grow well and I have little containers of sterile agar in my basement.
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Post by mabudon on Mar 16, 2007 17:15:08 GMT -5
LMAO OK, Lloyd, I'm out of this one... Wait'll I post pics of my whole setup, or post my little CP tour video, then my undeserved reputation as some kind of "accomplished grower" will FINALLY be put to rest... OH and my TOTALLY unscientific approach to detecting table salt in sand?? I'd taste it
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Post by lloyd on Mar 16, 2007 17:22:39 GMT -5
I was just trying to let you off easy. :-)
Don't be too cocky about your taste test. I tried it on some "washed" coconut husk I bought. Bit right into it and not a hint of saltiness. Even then it took over seven 24 hour soaks with tap water and 3 daily soaks with dehumidifier water to get the "soil moisture" meter to a safe low reading.
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Post by martin on Mar 16, 2007 18:18:31 GMT -5
Lloyd & Mabudon: I'm not sure I can follow where the conversation has gone - the false positive concept As to my sand/salt goof, I tend to think that minerals in the soil would have a long-term (e.g. years) effect on CPs. Also, my mix had more peat than the sand/salt, diminishing its effect. One interesting tidbit, I read that Pings dont mind hard water as other CPs. The Drosera and Utrics would be included in the most affected by hard water (not entirely sure why). The fact that many Mexican Pings actually grow on rocks might be part on the answer to why they are more tolerant - the minerals leached out with erosion are part of their habitat - just an hypothesis.
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Post by mabudon on Mar 18, 2007 11:24:27 GMT -5
Okay, I talked to Jay and realized that he gave me some of that Black Lightning stuff- it is sandblasting "sand" used to clean stuff off iron (from what I could find) It must be REALLY nasty at high speeds, it is REALLY chunky and seems perfectly safe- I forgot to ask him where he actually GETS it from but I believe it's from a local place called "Niagara Block and Stone" IIRC
That stuff is the nicest "sand" I've yet seen, no troubles so far with it- the "black" comes from these little black flecks scattered throughout it- dunno what it is but it seems to be non-soluble
HIGHLY recommended, really great stuff (Thanks again Jay btw)
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Post by jay on Mar 18, 2007 13:07:20 GMT -5
Silica sand is the best i find, child's play sand as stated in the Savage garden is a horrible media my advice if possible is to stay away from using it , the plants will stay alive , but its like emerge life support , barely hangs in there.
As for the coconut husks , a company in St. Cathrine's (for locals) called "Millennium soil coir sells clean coconut husks ground or chunked , and Chilean sphagnum moss by the bail
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Post by Syble on Mar 18, 2007 13:10:58 GMT -5
Where can you get large quantities of silica without taking out a loan? Sib
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Post by jay on Mar 18, 2007 13:17:35 GMT -5
what do you mean , 100 lb bag is only 20$ here ?
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Post by Syble on Mar 18, 2007 13:25:41 GMT -5
but where do you get it? I remember seing a small bag of silica in a pet store for sale for like $15 and I'd only need like 200 bags for my bog hehe sib
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Post by jay on Mar 18, 2007 13:36:12 GMT -5
There has to be a stone yard or building supply store in your area , like in winsor or the area surrounding it , go your phone book and ask, they won't give you a hard time about if your explain why you need it ,you'll just get alot of funny looks ( you"ll get use to it ), I know of a few great suppliers in the Niagara peninsula , but thats a little outta the way... Now you can get ball Cyprus mulch at pet stores which i find works great with nepenthes and heli's , the bark does not break down quick , and comes off the fragile roots with minimum damage , only problem is it drys out quick.
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Post by lloyd on Mar 18, 2007 21:46:19 GMT -5
Now I'm confused. Maybe I'm using bad sand? It looks like sand to me. Maybe too small a grain size? Can somebody with a good digital camera take a macro close up of a few varieties of sand good and bad, maybe with a ruler to get an idea of grain size? I know my sand is not full of minerals but maybe the grain size could be bigger.
By the way, has anybody tried "Stalite"? It's exploded slate and it's supposed to be good for growing medium. My son has a whole bunch and I wonder if I should try it.
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