tj
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by tj on Nov 13, 2010 21:59:37 GMT -5
Having just returned several hours ago from a cross border trip to California Carnivores, where I purchased several excellent hybrids (thanks for the tour and friendly helpful welcome Peter !), I have some information to share. To keep it brief, it is in point form: 1.Neps are allowed across the border from Mainland USA under the "houseplant rule" per D - 08 - 04. See D-08-04 on line at: www.inspection.gc.ca/english/plaveg/protect/dir/d-08-04e.shtml and section 3.1 General Requirements for Plants for Planting. No export permit from the State or Federal Govt is required. 2.Per No. 1, no Import Permit is required. 3.Per No. 1, no phyto is required if you are driving across the border. 4.Per No. 1, a phyto. is not supposed to be required if it is flown in - BUT - as per what happened today, the airport Canadian Food Inspection Agency requires it. Don't bother quoting the regs - I tried. They have a different unwritten rule at the airports. 5.When coming from Hawaii, you must have a phyto and the plant must be soil free. That means roots only in plastic. Not even paper towels. 6.It is best to have a pitchered plant - that is - one with actual pitchers to prove what it is. 7.Obviously empty all contents of pitchers. No bugs !! 8.The plant must have a name - not "Nepenthes". It must be "Nepenthes Truncata", for example. Hybrids must have a list of all parent names. By the way, these rules apply for the Import Permit. No. 5 and 8 are key. They are very strict regarding no packaging materials if you are importing plants from outside North America. By strict, I mean, there better not be any. If you are lucky, and you have a nice official, the following must be written verbatim on the contents "The plants that I have discussed are bare rooted and are without soil. The packing material is not growing media and is only used for packing material." 9.Import Permits take 6 weeks on average now. Make sure to both fax and mail the document in. 10.If you mess up, they will offer you a choice - mail it back at your cost, or they destroy it. This option is only for plants sent by mail to Canada. At the airport, they destroy it. No option. I hope this helps, TJ PS The hybrids I purchased were: -Maxima X (Truncata X Spathulata) - 48.75 -Truncata X Tobaica - 48.75 -Ventricosa X Truncata X Tivey (X2) - 7.00 and 15.00
|
|
|
Post by dvg on Nov 13, 2010 22:32:25 GMT -5
Thanks for the synopsis TJ.
If I followed your thread correctly, the CFIA confiscated your hybrid Neps and destroyed them?
Because you flew into Canada without a phytosanitary certificate?
If so, that is very unfortunate. Though you did say that if you were to have driven into Canada, you would have been able to get the plants across the border safely under the "houseplant provision".
I've ordered CP's a couple of times from the US and each time I had to pay around $50.00 US for a phyto. And the nursery had to book an appointment with an inspector to come around to inspect said plants being sent under that phyto doc.
Seeing as how you probably didn't have time to get a phyto doc while you were in Sebastopol, CA, you probably decided to take your chances at the border.
That's really too bad that you couldn't get your plants safely through the CFIA and Canada Customs.
I think most of us who have done enough orders from out of country have had some interesting experiences with CC and the CFIA.
Thanks for the valuable info though.
dvg
|
|
tj
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by tj on Nov 14, 2010 13:48:33 GMT -5
Hi DVG,
Luckily Peter at C.C. gave me a phyto. He was great - very attentive and interesting.
I did not think I would need it but gratefully accepted it. I am glad it I did. It is only because of that phyto that the inspector allowed the plants in. Even the email printout from his co-worker was not enough to convince him.
The inspector said that if I was driving through it would not be required. But - what happens if that same inspector moves to work at the drive through border crossing? Would it be required then? To be safe, I recommend getting phytos regardless because you never know who you are going to get. To be clear, the regs stipulate that a phyto is not required (except for Hawaii) ; I got that in writing (email). Despite that, the inspectors apparently make up the rules as they go along.
So, the plants are happily settling in without some warrant for their arrest and removal.
Cheers,
Tom
|
|
|
Post by vraev on Nov 14, 2010 14:38:05 GMT -5
Glad to know you were able to get some plants across. Those plants are impossible to find here locally. Thanks very much for the information. I am glad to know that the CFIA seems a bit more fair than the US customs.
|
|
|
Post by dvg on Nov 14, 2010 15:17:01 GMT -5
Whew! That must have been a real relief to have the phyto with you. From reading your message, I wasn't sure if you were able to get the plants across. Good forethought by Peter to send one with you just in case. And great to hear you got them into Canada successfully. dvg
|
|
|
Post by kd on Nov 14, 2010 15:46:46 GMT -5
Thanks for that. Where do you see Nepenthes listed in the link you gave? The Appendix 7 lists eligible and non-eligible plants, and Nepthes are not listed, neither are orchids. You were just talking about Phyto, but you didn't need CITES either? Very confusing. I've always avoided importing because it's just too confusing and problematic. You miss one little step, and your plants are gone - and your money!
|
|
|
Post by boabab95 on Nov 14, 2010 23:40:50 GMT -5
thanks for posting that!!!
i still find it strange that you need papers to bring plants in from the states, but you dont need any for say Jamaica (as long as theirs NO dirt, so you would be limited to epiphytes)
|
|
|
Post by vraev on Nov 15, 2010 0:44:29 GMT -5
I wonder how much work it would be to take plants into the states. It may be very likely that I will be ending up there to do more school in the future. I just hope I cannot loose some of my dear plants that are very close to my heart.
|
|
tj
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by tj on Nov 16, 2010 1:05:36 GMT -5
Hi KD,
I always go for hybrids so as to avoid the CITES issue and because I like the hybrid vigour. I keep the tags to show the plants are not CITES protected.
The sections I gave the links for were for the import requiremments. The info I was given made no mention of CITES because I advised them I only buy hybrids.
Hope that helps,
Tom
|
|
|
Post by hermes on Nov 16, 2010 16:53:07 GMT -5
Just a small correction. All nepenthes are, at the minimum, listed under CITES Appendix II regardless of whether they are hybrids or not. What made them exempt from permits in your particular case is that they fall under the exception of being "artificially propagated," i.e., they were grown from legally exempt seed or cuttings. For Appendix II wild-collected natural hybrids, import permits are not required but export permits are. Import permits are only ever required for Appendix I species and hybrids.
CFIA does require a phyto for both land and air shipments; however, it may not yet be enforced at land entry because of logistical problems at the ports of entry--this situation could change suddenly and without notice.
-Hermes.
|
|
tj
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by tj on Nov 18, 2010 21:37:06 GMT -5
Hi Hermes,
Thanks for your note. I called the CFIA today and was told they do NOT require a phyto for land crossing. They were mystified when I said that I was told the rules for air travel are the opposte. Note - Hawaii is the opposite and maybe this is what you were thinking of. They quoted me the following (see underlined - para. 2 - sentence 1):
"3.4 Specific Requirements for Plants for Planting
NOTE: Please refer to Appendix 2 for a list of NAPPRA plant material.
Note: Houseplants imported from the Continental United States and Hawaii, may be exempted from regular documentation requirements because the risks of introducing quarantine pests into Canada from these commodities is considered low. Houseplants are usually tropical or semi-tropical ornamental plants that are grown or intended to be grown indoors. A list of examples of eligible and non-eligible plants is included in Appendix 7. In order to qualify for the exemption, the houseplants must be for personal use and must accompany the importer at the time of entry into Canada, in baggage or as part of household effects. The total number of plants must not exceed 50 houseplants. Please note that any specific species requirement or prohibition take precedence over the houseplant import requirements outlined in this directive.
Eligible houseplants originating from the Continental United States, do not require an import permit nor a phytosanitary certificate. Houseplants originating from Hawaii do not require an import permit, however, the plants must be completely free from all soil, related matter and growing media, and must be accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate issued by the USDA, or its designate. Please note that the houseplant exemption does not apply to plants originating from areas that are regulated for Phytophthora ramorum. Please see D-01-01 for more information."
I have taken many, many plants across the border by car from Seattle and never been asked for a phyto when inspected.
"Regarding CITES, here is what it says (see last para. last sentence):
Appendices I, II and III valid from 14 October 2010
5. As none of the species or higher taxa of FLORA included in Appendix I is annotated to the effect that its hybrids shall be treated in accordance with the provisions of Article III of the Convention, this means that artificially propagated hybrids produced from one or more of these species or taxa may be traded with a certificate of artificial propagation, and that seeds and pollen (including pollinia), cut flowers, seedling or tissue cultures obtained in vitro, in solid or liquid media, transported in sterile containers of these hybrids are not subject to the provisions of the Convention."
|
|
tj
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by tj on Nov 18, 2010 21:39:14 GMT -5
Whoops, that para. is just one long para. and one long sentence. Look at the last 2 lines.
|
|
|
Post by vraev on Nov 19, 2010 1:47:57 GMT -5
Thanks TJ. Its some useful info. Next time I try visiting relatives in california, I will see if I can make use of this info.
|
|
|
Post by hermes on Nov 19, 2010 16:47:35 GMT -5
Thanks for your note. I called the CFIA today and was told they do NOT require a phyto for land crossing. They were mystified when I said that I was told the rules for air travel are the opposte. Note - Hawaii is the opposite and maybe this is what you were thinking of. They quoted me the following (see underlined - para. 2 - sentence 1): Actually, I imported a large number of CPs into Canada by land this Aug, and I was told by the CFIA agent I was working with that the new regulations were so supposed to go into effect in Sept 2010. Obviously, they are still having problems. "3.4 Specific Requirements for Plants for Planting NOTE: Please refer to Appendix 2 for a list of NAPPRA plant material. Note: Houseplants imported from the Continental United States and Hawaii, may be exempted from regular documentation requirements because the risks of introducing quarantine pests into Canada from these commodities is considered low. Houseplants are usually tropical or semi-tropical ornamental plants that are grown or intended to be grown indoors. A list of examples of eligible and non-eligible plants is included in Appendix 7. In order to qualify for the exemption, the houseplants must be for personal use and must accompany the importer at the time of entry into Canada, in baggage or as part of household effects. The total number of plants must not exceed 50 houseplants. Please note that any specific species requirement or prohibition take precedence over the houseplant import requirements outlined in this directive. Please keep in mind that the above definitions of "house plant" is used only in reference to the regulations for the phyto cert. Any appendix II species unless it is "artificially propagated" under the CITES definition is not regarded as a "house plant" when "in baggage" unless it is part of "household effects." In essence, it is only considered part of your "household effects" once you get it to your domicile or are moving a domicile. Eligible houseplants originating from the Continental United States, do not require an import permit nor a phytosanitary certificate. But they may require an export permit from US Fish and Game if they are "appendix II" species and they are either (1) not part of household effects or (2) not provable as artificially propagated. "Regarding CITES, here is what it says (see last para. last sentence): 5. As none of the species or higher taxa of FLORA included in Appendix I is annotated to the effect that its hybrids shall be treated in accordance with the provisions of Article III of the Convention, this means that artificially propagated hybrids produced from one or more of these species or taxa may be traded with a certificate of artificial propagation, and that seeds and pollen (including pollinia), cut flowers, seedling or tissue cultures obtained in vitro, in solid or liquid media, transported in sterile containers of these hybrids are not subject to the provisions of the Convention." Ah, here is the kicker. It isn't the "hybrid" part that is letting you bring the plants into Canada, but the fact that they are "artificially propagated." You can also bring in "artificially propagated" pure bred species from Appendix II as long as you can prove they are "artificially propagated" from legally obtained stock. -Hermes.
|
|